LibreOffice Swag/Merchandise Bulk Purchase?

Board Discuss
#1

Hiya,

The QA Team is currently planning to have a Triage Contest[1] in June
to help us confirm and prioritize unconfirmed bugs. We're hoping to
take a big bite out of the backlog of bugs in Bugzilla and to encourage
more volunteers to join LibreOffice and the QA Team.

We're looking to purchase some swag and goodies for the contest. Some
of the ideas we've come up with have included:
- T-Shirts
- Mugs
- Posters
- Pens
- Pins
- Patches
- Hoodies
- Laptop cases

Is anyone in US-Marketing considering a purchase of these (or similar)
items in the next few months? We're thinking that for shipping reasons
we'd want to source items locally in both Europe and the US. If you're
interested in purchasing 5 or 500 items, we'd definitely be interested
in pooling our resources for the task.

Thanks!
-- Robinson 'qubit' Tryon

(Per JMadero, I'm cc'ing the BoD and Developers, in case either of you
needs to make a similar purchase for a planned event)

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Bug_Triage_Contest

#2

Hi,

We're looking to purchase some swag and goodies for the contest. Some
of the ideas we've come up with have included:

please check with Thorsten first - TDF cannot legally spend more than 40 ¤ per year individually for each member, including hoodies, food and other items. So having hoodies etc. as prize for a contest would be highly problematic, IMHO.

Florian

#3

Hi Florian,

> We're looking to purchase some swag and goodies for the contest. Some
> of the ideas we've come up with have included:

please check with Thorsten first

  The stop energy has already reached epic proportions here :slight_smile: The plan
is to encourage SPI to fund this - which should be no issue.

  ATB,

    Michael.

#4

Hi,

  The stop energy has already reached epic proportions here:-) The plan
is to encourage SPI to fund this - which should be no issue.

sure, that would be no issue then. :slight_smile:

Florian

#5

So if I'm reading this right, even if we combine with an event that we need
LibreOffice gear, we can't use that gear as a prize and therefor TDF cannot
be involved at all? If this is the case I'll plan on going through SPI
which is cool but will be unfortunate in the sense that we could spend more
than necessary as a bulk order may cut cost substantially.

Best,
Joel

#6

Hi,

So if I'm reading this right, even if we combine with an event that we
need LibreOffice gear, we can't use that gear as a prize and therefor
TDF cannot be involved at all? If this is the case I'll plan on going
through SPI which is cool but will be unfortunate in the sense that we
could spend more than necessary as a bulk order may cut cost substantially.

Thorsten should know the details, but the general notion is that individual presents for people are locked to 40 ¤ per year. There's a slight difference in how things are done, but I lack the exact insight here, Thorsten knows best.

SPI should be no problem at all, though.

Florian

#7

I think it would be perfectly fine for an individual to place an bulk
order for 50 T-shirts, and then have SPI buy 20 of them, TDF buy 20
more, and have a few individuals buy 1 or 2 each.

As long as we keep our noses clean and make sure that...
1) We get the organizations/individuals to pre-order the merchandise
2) We don't spend more than 40 € of TDF's money per year, per person
3) We make sure to deliver the merchandise once it arrives

...then I think that we should be okay. At least that's how I
understand the situation, anyhow :slight_smile:

Cheers,
--R

#8

Hi,

2) We don't spend more than 40 ¤ of TDF's money per year, per person

remember there are certain things we need to count in here, including e.g. a possible party at the next LibOCon. Doing via SPI is *much* better.

Florian

#9

Robinson Tryon wrote:

We're looking to purchase some swag and goodies for the contest. Some
of the ideas we've come up with have included:
- T-Shirts
- Mugs
- Posters
- Pens
- Pins
- Patches
- Hoodies
- Laptop cases

Great! If you get designs finalized for those, please do poke
board-discuss - I guess there is some universal need for that. Can I
add Rollups, that's always cool for setting up booth w/o knowing if
there is a wall to hang a poster to?

Is anyone in US-Marketing considering a purchase of these (or similar)
items in the next few months? We're thinking that for shipping reasons
we'd want to source items locally in both Europe and the US. If you're
interested in purchasing 5 or 500 items, we'd definitely be interested
in pooling our resources for the task.

Right, and thanks for your initiative!

(let's not bother everyone with the payment details)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

#10

Oh, certainly. I was just trying to assert the point that it should be
technically possible for us to accomplish a bulk purchase of items by
having a separate entity (e.g. an individual) coordinate and make the
actual purchase.

Quick question: How does the 40 € rule apply if, say, Marketing wants
to purchase $200 of assorted T-shirts, pens, and stickers to
distribute? Does Marketing in that circumstance need to provide a
description of how they're going to distribute the swag and to whom?

Thanks,
--R

#11

Robinson Tryon wrote:

We're looking to purchase some swag and goodies for the contest. Some
of the ideas we've come up with have included:
- T-Shirts
- Mugs
- Posters
- Pens
- Pins
- Patches
- Hoodies
- Laptop cases

Great! If you get designs finalized for those, please do poke
board-discuss - I guess there is some universal need for that. Can I
add Rollups, that's always cool for setting up booth w/o knowing if
there is a wall to hang a poster to?

Sure thing. We're mostly focused on prize-type items for the Triage
Contest, but I'll be happy to add Rollups to the quote list.

Is anyone in US-Marketing considering a purchase of these (or similar)
items in the next few months? We're thinking that for shipping reasons
we'd want to source items locally in both Europe and the US. If you're
interested in purchasing 5 or 500 items, we'd definitely be interested
in pooling our resources for the task.

Right, and thanks for your initiative!

:slight_smile:

(let's not bother everyone with the payment details)

Fair enough. Sorry about that -- just trying to follow the
conversation where it lead.

Cheers,
--R

#12

Hi :slight_smile:
That 40 sounds bizzare. Some have already claimed more than that on travel without being even slightly dishonourable. Far from it in fact, they seem to have gone to extraordinary pains to keep costs down and i really can’t imagine people in other organisations going that far. It’s an unworkable amount and must have some provisions to allow for reality?!!?

Surely the normal way would be for TDF to buy in bulk, obtaining a massive discount due to that, and then sell on to individuals or groups at more than TDF paid per item. Groups often do that sort of thing so that individuals pay less than they would have to if they bought the single item for themselves. The group gets a tiny profit and hopefully enough to cover any losses for items that go unsold and wastage, admin, postage, other overheads with some change left over. The problem might be at what point that gets considered “Trading” and whether that is allowed.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#13

Hi,

That 40 sounds bizzare. Some have already claimed more than that on
travel without being even slightly dishonourable. Far from it in fact,
they seem to have gone to extraordinary pains to keep costs down and i
really can't imagine people in other organisations going that far. It's
an unworkable amount and must have some provisions to allow for reality?!!?

well, as said, Thorsten has most insight here. From what I know expenses like travel are no problem, because they are simply a refund for occured costs.

However, individual financial contributions to people is limited to 40 ¤ per year. If you give someone a present bag for their birthday, if you invite someone for dinner, if you give someone a t-shirt or other swag as a prize, that counts for the 40 ¤.

I'm not saying I like this, but it's tax law. There is of course a distinction between general expenses and individual support, but we need to take care, which is why SPI is better.

Florian

#14

I know for sure that European laws are very different from US laws. From my
understanding $0 profit is allowed, meaning even if we can buy in bulk
through TDF, SPI would then purchase the item at a per cost price - even
this is not clear though. At this point we are going to move to SPI and see
if they can fund a small purchase, moving forward hopefully we find a
better solution (might require some legal advice).

I think there is some confusion about "prize" vs. "merchandise" vs. using
"merchandise" as an incentive to join the contest which we are discussing.
I'm not sure if merchandise becomes a prize if it is used in such a
context. Because of these limitations and questions, we'll just go to SPI
and/or Friends of Open Document for funding - it shouldn't be that much for
this particular contest and I've been told that if I purchase out of pocket
I will get a refund from someone.

Best,
Joel

#15

Thorsten Behrens wrote (28-03-13 19:57)

Robinson Tryon wrote:

We're looking to purchase some swag and goodies for the contest. Some
of the ideas we've come up with have included:
- T-Shirts
- Mugs
- Posters
- Pens
- Pins
- Patches
- Hoodies
- Laptop cases

Great! If you get designs finalized for those, please do poke
board-discuss - I guess there is some universal need for that.

I had a thousand stickers produced last year. Was not difficult to distribute those (including FOSDEM).
Design here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Material#Stickers_.28Designs_for.29

When I would order 10.000, the cost per sticker (for a batch of a certain amount, shipping included would be ):
Amount Europe World
100 12 12
300 10,3 11
600 10,2 10,8
(Ordering 5000, would raise the price for one sticker app. 4 c)

And a small amount of mugs.
Design here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Material#T-shirts_.2F_muggs_…_.28Designs_for

Shipping of those is more expensive, so production best done local/regional, I guess.

Cheers,

#16

Thorsten Behrens wrote (28-03-13 19:57)

Robinson Tryon wrote:

We're looking to purchase some swag and goodies for the contest. Some
of the ideas we've come up with have included:
- T-Shirts
- Mugs
- Posters
- Pens
- Pins
- Patches
- Hoodies
- Laptop cases

Great! If you get designs finalized for those, please do poke

board-discuss - I guess there is some universal need for that.

I had a thousand stickers produced last year. Was not difficult to
distribute those (including FOSDEM).
Design here:

https://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/**Marketing/Material#Stickers_.**
28Designs_for.29<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Material#Stickers_.28Designs_for.29>

When I would order 10.000, the cost per sticker (for a batch of a certain
amount, shipping included would be ):
Amount Europe World
100 12 12
300 10,3 11
600 10,2 10,8
(Ordering 5000, would raise the price for one sticker app. 4 c)

At that cost maybe we can give a sticker to everyone who participates?
Let's say it's 50 people (very very optimistic), it might be less than $25
to get them a sticker.

And a small amount of mugs.
Design here:

https://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/**Marketing/Material#T-shirts_.**
2F_muggs_…_.28Designs_for<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Material#T-shirts_.2F_muggs_…_.28Designs_for>

Shipping of those is more expensive, so production best done
local/regional, I guess.

Nice, we'll just do 1 mug most likely, at most would be 2. We will find
local store to print the mug(s) and ship them. Robinson and I are working
on this.

What about for t-shirts? Same design as mug? Hoodies I think we have some
left over (hope?) if not, should we purchase a larger batch and have
someone store them until our next event in Europe? Lastly, a laptop bag,
I'm going to ping Marketing about making some kind of design to add to it -
if no one volunteers probably same as mug/tshirt design.

Best,
Joel

#17

Hi Joel,

Joel Madero wrote (29-03-13 17:59)

At that cost maybe we can give a sticker to everyone who participates?
Let's say it's 50 people (very very optimistic), it might be less than
$25 to get them a sticker.

And once we ship, we send some more. Always good for everyone to have one at hand to share :wink:

Nice, we'll just do 1 mug most likely, at most would be 2. We will find
local store to print the mug(s) and ship them. Robinson and I are
working on this.

I was lucky to be able to order a small amount for an interesting price..

What about for t-shirts? Same design as mug?

Can be if one wishes.
You may also take the plain LibreOffice logo of course or make something else.

Hoodies I think we have some left over (hope?)

Not that much, and as far as I know mostly small sizes.

if not, should we purchase a larger batch and
have someone store them until our next event in Europe?

Or the other way round.
Just depends on whats most practical for ordering / payment / storage and sharing.

Lastly, a laptop bag,

Yes, that is interesting.

I'm going to ping Marketing about making some kind of design to add
to it - if no one volunteers probably same as mug/tshirt design.

The more designs the merrier, IMO :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Cor

#18

Cor Nouws wrote:

>Hoodies I think we have some left over (hope?)

Not that much, and as far as I know mostly small sizes.

Yep, hoodies and tshirts only left in negligible amounts and unlikely
sizes.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

#19

Tom Davies wrote:

That 40 sounds bizzare.

This amount refers to presents (Florian clearly stated
that). Reimbursing reasonable expenses made by people travelling on
behalf of TDF is not a present. Did you read up on continental tax
law? If not, this discussion appears to be a tad pointless to me.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

#20

I think we can end the conversation all together, we'll plan on going through SPI and Friends of Open Document, worst case I'll buy the stuff with my own money and then get reimbursed. :slight_smile: Thanks Thorsten for keeping us all up to date with legal stuff and for being patient with my lack of knowledge. We're going to price stuff in the US and Europe to see cheapest prices.

Can I get the name of the company you went through for hoodies and tshirts, maybe they'll give us a small deal for repeat customer :slight_smile:

Best,
Joel

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