TDF's presence on X

Hello,

TDF/LO have at least these four accounts (I don’t know if there are more) on X , a.k.a. the microblogging service formerly known as Twitter:

https://x.com/tdforg
https://x.com/libreoffice
https://x.com/AskLibreOffice
https://x.com/LibreOfficeBugs

Meanwhile, there seem to be only two equivalent Mastodon accounts:

https://fosstodon.org/@tdforg
https://fosstodon.org/@libreoffice

In my view, TDF should adopt Mastodon as the primary microblogging service we use so that no-one needs to use X to follow content published by TDF. Besides Mastodon being FOSS and thus aligning better with our values, the posts are also viewable without creating an account, unlike on X.

There’s also the question of values beyond software licensing. In 2022, when Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine began, TDF removed a Russian company with ties to the Russian Federation’s military from our Advisory Board. Three years later, Ukraine remains under attack. Meanwhile, Elon Musk, the owner of X, wields extraordinary power with little accountablility (to say the least) in the U.S. government, and has used his influence in an attempt to sway elections in Europe, among other less than welcome things.

Do we want to lend legitimacy and user-base to Musk’s platform by creating content on it, despite perfectly usable alternatives being available? Now that the U.S. leadership, who Musk is de facto part of, are apparently about to abandon Ukraine, and more broadly Europe, in favour of Russia, this is rapidly becoming more than a question of solidarity with Ukraine (not that that isn’t important!). As TDF is an entity based in Germany, it would be in TDF’s interest of self-preservation, as well, to do what little we can to avert the catastrophe that Ukraine’s defeat would represent to Europe.

In light of all this, we should consider leaving X altogether, despite possibly losing followers by doing so. As to services such as Bluesky and Threads, I’m not opposed to TDF opening accounts there, but as closed-source services, IMO they shoud not take priority over Mastodon.

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We should we where our users and targets are, ideally giving them choice - and not “forcing” or encouraging their use of X.

Bluesky seems to be a successor for X for many, so I definitely would stay there.

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tl;dr: We should absolutely not scuttle our Twitter/X presence for the reasons you’ve given.

That was a shameful decision taken by the TDF. In fact, if I had known about it before I had joined as a trustee, I might have avoided joining in the first place.

You see, we claimed that

TDF does not get involved in politics in any way

but despite TDF officials having been personally involved with NATO member militaries (at least through contract work) - only an entity supposedly associated with the Russian military had actions taken against it. And that’s before we mention advisory board members which had not been kicked out for doing business with state military/intelligence: Google, AMD, Intel, and a branch of the UK government.

So, we’ve already - unfortunately - taken action to drive away Russian entities, echoing the sanctions and cutting off of ties that the US and some of its allies have carried out; then hypocritically tried to present our conduct as a-political, which it was not.

And now, you’re asking the TDF to withdraw accounts on Twitter/X because “The US leadership… are… about to abandon Ukraine… in favor of Russia”.

If, at some other time, we were to adopt a policy of avoiding platforms controlled by large commercial corporations and billionaires with political agendas which are known to have engaged in censorship and other forms of social engineering on their platforms - including Facebook and Twitter/X (and probably others), we could have had that discussion. But that’s not what we’re talking about.

I strongly oppose yet another action based on disapproval of Russian actions vis-a-vis Ukraine or the current US administration’s foreign policy. If I were to support that kind of activity, I would have suggested we move our organizational presence from Germany to a world state which is has not been actively supporting a genocide, and arguing in defense of its perpatrator in the ICJ.


PS - It is perhaps worth noting that we have a Facebook page, but - nothing has been posted there since 2019 (!).

I have asked for the TDF to migrate since 2023. Task #3703: @LibreOfficeBugs should be on Mastodon or Bluesky instead of Xitter - Infrastructure - The Document Foundation Redmine

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I agree - we need to be where our users or potential users are, so we can spread our message. We should also offer free and open source/open standards alternatives, of course, but not overly “lecture” users where to be.

For information Ask account will soon migrate to a Mastodon account.

I would usually agree, but in this specific case our very presence on X detracts from TDF’s reputation and status globally and I agree with the earlier comments that TDF should at a minimum freeze its X accounts and move all traffic to an alternative service, and perhaps close its accounts on X.

The Facebook page is here: LibreOffice

Hi Simon,

The challenge moving all that traffic though. LibreOffice on X/Twitter isn’t just us posting some things, but also answering questions, correcting false assumptions about LibreOffice, getting people off the unmaintained OpenOffice etc. So I understand the concerns about where X/Twitter is going but I think our presence there is still very useful.

But I’m watching the developments (as the main maintainer of the accounts) and working to do more with our Mastodon and Bluesky accounts…

One middle approach, which I think the original poster might have captured, is that of a ‘primary’ service. Where does the news and/or new content land first? and where can you still find out about it, but somewhat later than everyone else :slight_smile:
I tend to think that preaching temperance to the choir is virtuous, but perhaps not so useful as talking to people in the pub.

Why migrate rather than have an account on both networks?

As @floeff puts it:

we need to be where our users or potential users are, so we can spread our message.

and that’s on X/Twitter, Bluesky and Mastodon.

(Caveat: If someone were to make a “too much work” argument about overly extensive social media presence - that could be a valid discussion.)

On 2025-03-03 19:08, Eyal Rozenberg via The Document Foundation

Why migrate rather than have an account on both networks?

An adage in business is to make it easier for a customer to pay for
something, than walk out the door without the item, because the
organisation doesn’t accept the means of payment that the customer has.

In Social Media, that translates to making it easier for a customer to
contact the organisation, than not contact the organisation.

You don’t want the individual to have to guess which account on which
social media platform is the real McCoy. As such, the organisation has
to “push” a single point as its major source of information, whilst
maintaining an authoritative presence on the other platforms.

That single point has to be a presence that is not controllable by third
parties, however well-meaning and benign that the third party might
pretend to be.

we need to be where our users or potential users are, so we can
spread our message.
and that’s on X/Twitter, Bluesky and Mastodon.

If LibreOffice has a presence in the Fediverse, use
fediverse,libreoffice.org as the originating domain.
Otherwise people wonder if the account that claims to be the official
LibreOffice account, that uses Libreoffice@mastedon.org is the real
McCoy. (I’m making up user names — I dropped the Fediverse after
going through six hosts in less than twelve months, all of whom
shuttered their doors with no advance warning.)

Caveat: If someone were to make a “too much work” argument about overly extensive social media presence - that could be a valid discussion.

How many accounts a single Social Media Representative can adequately
handle, depends upon the tools that are available to them. A core
requirement is that the knowledge base that is available to them is up
to date, accurate, and that they (the social media rep) has the
authority to make changes to it, as needed.

The anecdotal evidence suggests that with minimal/no tools other than
the knowledge base, an individual can handle a maximum of 100 messages
per hour, from all accounts. With excellent tools and support
structure, a Social Media Representative can reach 10,000 messages per
hour. However, the organisation has to be willing to put a lot of effort
into providing the support services to enable that Social Media
Representative to sustain that level of interaction.

jonathon

I think we’re talking about two very different things: Venues or media for posting content, such as announcements, interviews, links etc - and places through which we are contacted. The OP of this thread regards the latter, and so does my reply. Our presence on Twitter and Facebook is not conducive to people contacting us through DMs on those platform (@mikesaunders , correct me if I’m wrong). And at any rate, it should be made clear that the place to ask questions about LO is mostly ask.libreoffice.org . People interested in the TDF itself would go to our website and use the contact details there.

For the records:

I follow 2 LibreOffice groups in Facebook and the 2 groups are largely used to get (community) support on LibreOffice.

Olivier

BTW: If Mozilla can fully remove its X presence, so can we. Remove X and Twitter links from Mozorg pages and Footer · Issue #15988 · mozilla/bedrock · GitHub

Hi Fito! They haven’t fully removed their X presence though. The X Mozilla and Firefox accounts are both still active. And with all respect for the Mozilla communities and projects, if they do something it doesn’t mean we have to automatically do the same.

But here’s a thought: instead of closing our X accounts now, perhaps we could remove the links to them from the LibreOffice website footers. That way, we can still be where a large number of people are still active (X), but without explicitly pointing people there.

What do you all think?

Given that is exactly what was requested by the Issue @fito linked, that surely has to be a big “yes”!

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I’m fine to have another service as the “primary” service, if such thing exists after all. Looking what others do we might find arguments in favor and against. There’s a huge load of reputable organizations and governments using Twitter/X, other organizations don’t use it anymore. Without entering a political debate, there would certainly be services I would not suggest us using, but - currently at least - Twitter/X is not amongst them, even if I am clearly worried about where things are heading.

Essentially, it’s a game we can’t win. Just as one example: As a mail server postmaster, I could tell you which (very widely used!) e-mail services not to support anymore if people have problems, because they are driven by monopolies that ignore establishedd standards. However, I doubt it would be smart to remove all subscribers using that particular service, lecturing them why they should move their inboxes to another provider.

We could also drop support for proprietary operating systems, lecturing people they should install another system - losing at once a big batch of our user base.

I think for us it’s beneficial to support what we can to spread and share our message, with a preference for truly free and open source projects. Convincing people of the benefits of free and open source and truly open standards, instead of lecturing.

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Mozilla is absolutely not a role model for organizational behavior. They are terribly governed. For a recent example of what that translates into their recent terms-of-use debacle.

Anyway, agree with @floeff : Our concerns or dislikes regarding various platforms are unfortunately not a good enough reason for us not to have some sort of basic presence there, even as we conduct our business elsewhere. And that’s coming from a person who has no Facebook account and has never tweeted anything.

If you want to be lukewarm, so be it. Just remember that staying there is tacitly acknowledging agreement with an openly fascist entrepreneur who has effectively taken over a nation’s government with apartheid ideologies.

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