Hi,
I read about the change in the board of the FSF, a member of the TDF
Advisory Board:
There are a lot of contributors in the Free Software business, which are
seeing this change toxic for this business.
What's the position of TDF board on this topic? And how to proceed with
the Advisory Board membership?
Regards,
Andreas
Hi Andreas,
What's the position of TDF board on this topic ?
As you know this sort of question is a very easy one to ask but as with
anything where there are a wide diversity of opinions - tends to be an
extraordinarily expensive one to answer in terms of board time.
Regards,
Michael.
Hi Michael, all,
Hi Andreas,
What's the position of TDF board on this topic ?
As you know this sort of question is a very easy one to ask but as with
anything where there are a wide diversity of opinions - tends to be an
extraordinarily expensive one to answer in terms of board time.
and could be extraordinary expensive for TDF and it's ecosystem, if TDF
dodge an answer.
Regards,
Andreas
I’ll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board has demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be regarded as bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other organisations[2] are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance, TDF’s Board should also consider removal of FSF from their advisory board, at least temporarily until it has achieved representative governance.
S.
[1] https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1374399897558917128?s=20
[2] https://www.outreachy.org/blog/2021-03-23/fsf-participation-barred/
On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 10:08 AM Andreas Mantke <maand@gmx.de> wrote:
Hi,
I read about the change in the board of the FSF, a member of the TDF
Advisory Board:There are a lot of contributors in the Free Software business, which are
seeing this change toxic for this business.What’s the position of TDF board on this topic? And how to proceed with
the Advisory Board membership?Regards,
Andreas–
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great and consequent statement.
Regards,
Andreas
This was very effectively stated, and I'm hearted by the swift response by the community at large.
While Stallman's contributions in the past have been monumental for us all, his continued abuses of his status has seriously harmed the cause of free software.
I would be delighted for TDF/LibreOffice to sever ties with FSF America and instead solely rely on FSFe for advisement.
Hi,
I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board has
demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be regarded as
bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other organisations[2]
are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance, TDF's Board should
also consider removal of FSF from their advisory board, at least
temporarily until it has achieved representative governance.
Given recent events, I support this proposal by Simon for TDF to:
- distance itself from FSF at minimum
- and also consider removing FSF from TDFs advisory board immediately
Any entity to make such a deliberate, yet ill-advised, self-defeating
decision that sabotages its own stated goals should not be given a
priviledged position in providing advise to the Document Foundation.
Best,
Bjoern
Hi Simon, all,
I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board
has demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be
regarded as bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other
organisations[2] are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance,
TDF's Board should also consider removal of FSF from their advisory
board, at least temporarily until it has achieved representative
governance.
Agree, what happened is unbelievable and TDF should take distance.
Marina
+1 and I would even answer, that I would personally take distance from TDF if TDF dodges an answer on that topic (and we should all too). Silence gives consent, right?
Views expressed here are my own.
Also, this RMS situation is the perfect timing to have/enforce a proper contributor agreement/code of conduct/manifesto/call-it-what-you-want-to agreement without the need to reinvent the wheel.
I know you have been working on this (cf. occurrences in "Board of Directors Meeting 2021-03-12" and even back from the days Marina was at the board), I'm just mentioning that instead of reinventing the wheel for that part, we just could use this joint/collective effort:
https://www.contributor-covenant.org/
signed by a bunch of (well-known) orgs since 2014 (which could add additional visibility to our project).
Don't understand the need for reinventing the wheel for that part here, **except to** add our additional values related to FOSS office suites, ODF and other TDF call to actions described here [1] and there [2].
[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Next_Decade_Manifesto
[2] cf. TDF initial statutes
Also, this RMS situation is the perfect timing to have/enforce a proper contributor agreement/code of conduct/manifesto/call-it-what-you-want-to agreement without the need to reinvent the wheel.
Which is already in place since some time:
https://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/code-of-conduct/
And to which any member (Advisory Board members included) has to support and adhere to.
Far from perfect? Yes, sure, probably miles away. Hope to be working on it as soon as possible.
I know you have been working on this (cf. occurrences in "Board of Directors Meeting 2021-03-12" and even back from the days Marina was at the board), I'm just mentioning that instead of reinventing the wheel for that part, we just could use this joint/collective effort:
https://www.contributor-covenant.org/
Thanks for the heads up. I'm sure this is sound material to evaluate.
Cheers,
Perhaps more measured than:
https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
Which is gathering steam, and focuses on the beliefs that are
acceptable in various communities.
Regards,
Michael.
Note however I am not asking TDF’s Board to endorse a public statement by others, or to engage in discussion of the valid ethical and moral issues raised in those statements. As a former director I have been in multiple TDF meetings where this has happened and know it is divisive and unproductive in this community.
Instead, I am asking the Board to suspend FSF’s membership of TDF’s Advisory Board until such time as they regain the authority that led to them being freely offered the role in the first place and which they have squandered by their recent actions. I suggest the Board simply vote on this action directly, in the light of all the available public information.
Cheers
Simon
Hi Michael, Simon,
>
> Perhaps more measured than:
Which shows that there are some measured and uncontroversial things that
_need_ to be said in this situation and others that might be not
universially shared. Given the urgency and ease of consensus in the
first, TDF should focus on those in a timely manner.
Instead, I am asking the Board to suspend FSF's membership of TDF's
Advisory Board until such time as they regain the authority that led to
them being freely offered the role in the first place and which they have
squandered by their recent actions. I suggest the Board simply vote on this
action directly, in the light of all the available public information.
I join Simons call here: for TDF to clearly act and do what is
necessary. Given that some members already publicly put their
association with the foundation on the line and more likely have done
the same without going public, as a former director I ask the board to
clearly show the colors of the foundation in the next 48 hours for the
members it is representing to prevent further damage to its projects and
community.
Best,
Bjoern
This is the minimum common understanding that TDF should agree on.
Thanks,
Marina
Dear community,
we are aware of the recent developments around FSF and Richard Stallman's role in their board, and do take your concerns very seriously, as we do share them.
TDF is currently preparing an official statement and discusses further steps. We will send out official communication as soon as possible.
All of us are strongly committed to make the community a safe and welcoming environment, and we do have a Code of Conduct in place: https://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/code-of-conduct/
On behalf of the board
Florian
Hi,
I know you have been working on this (cf. occurrences in "Board of
Directors Meeting 2021-03-12" and even back from the days Marina was at
the board), I'm just mentioning that instead of reinventing the wheel
for that part, we just could use this joint/collective effort:
https://www.contributor-covenant.org/Thanks for the heads up. I'm sure this is sound material to evaluate.
No idea how much it evaluation it received from the then BoD, but FWIW
that project was mentioned in passing on this very list 4 years ago
during the discussion that got /foundation/code-of-conduct published and
adopted: https://listarchives.tdf.io/i/hNmCoWCFFk63f2HlUicKssps .
cheers
Haha ok. Thanks for mentioning this Guilhem, you're my personal mailing list archeologist 
(at that time I wasn't keeping the emails locally, so I only have archives from 2018 and onward, at that time I thought that full text search was simpler wrt. mailing lists, my bad...)
For what is worth, the contributor covenant evolved in version number[2] and became more robust (and inclusive) since that time, thanks to the joint effort of organizations coming in to participate and sign this agreement 
Back on the main topic, I'm glad TDF has been able to provide an answer in a timely manner. When it's great, it's important to mention it too =)
[1] https://twitter.com/wget42/status/1375088510227648515
[2] https://github.com/ContributorCovenant/contributor_covenant/compare/1.4...2.0#diff-ffdbe3a1e7ee93cacfc080b6c635ccf3a8f6b0f00f2fb884f78c6b5f9dac8fd2