Open letter for revive LOOL, add your +1 if you agree

Board Discuss
#1

We, the undersigned, would like to express our great concern regarding the definitive closure of the repository of what was LibreOffice Online. Considering the mission of facilitating access to information and communication technologies as a fundamental and strategic achievement of inclusion and exercise of digital sovereignty.

As a foundation committed to eliminating the digital divide in society by giving everyone free access to office productivity tools, the most important thing is to demonstrate that we are committed to offering alternatives to all those individuals and organizations that lack the resources to hire corporate services.

We intend with this message, an absolute rethinking of the vote that established the current condition of the repository, which belongs to the community and should welcome improvements from all over the community, as we consider it goes against the objectives outlined by The Document Foundation.

To avoid the process of atticization, as the clock is already ticking, and, at the same time, emphasize the global nature of the foundation we urge full consideration of the two proposals that have been made so far.

Support Andreas Mantke’s effort to revive the LOOL project. Who has already succeeded in upgrading the pre-fork code base to current libraries and dependencies versions. (https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00684.html)
Implement the OxOffice On Line Community Version fork that already has several improvements before the LOOL version has been frozen, including those implemented in the commercial versions, and bugs fixed by them as they see fit. (https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00694.html)

In any case, since this is a community version TDF must show its commitment to its core values and do everything in their power to grow LOOL community in order to continue development.

Sincerely yours, LibreOffice Community Members and Activists around the world.

#2

I totally agree

+1

#3

+1

Daniel A. Rodriguez <drodriguez@libreoffice.org> 於 2022年7月11日 週一 04:44 寫道：

#4

I support this statement wholeheartedly and will contribute personal time and effort to making it happen.

Adolfo

#5

I already expressed my opinion in the other thread. Here is my +1.

#6

-1

LOOL is just a UI flavor to me. It's nothing without the core and provides just one way to interact with the application (admittedly some special handling which might be important for many).

I understand COOL (and any other implementations) as a win-win situation for TDF. If LibreOffice was even more focused on the core application, with for example a generic filter for MS Office and the opportunity to replace it with some always 100%-compatible alternative, the majority of users is still provided with a great office suite and the best document format - free of charge, open source, localized in all tongues... By making an application easy to extend we allow the ecosystem to grow, attract professional developers to work on the application, and (hopefully) make the application more stable (in fact, the expandability comes on some costs first).

Collabora offers a free (yet unsupported) version for those who rely on browser interaction. From my experience it requires some expertise to set-up the environment and it is not suited for individuals anyway. Small and mid size companies should afford the IT administration and the subscription which includes support.

Keep also in mind that LOOL has not received any major code contribution and is now way behind COOL.

PS: I wonder who is addressed by the open letter and the request to vote. Please don't undermine the responsibility of the board. On the other hand, I appreciate to ask the community for opinions and take it as such.

#7

My ha'penneth below.

Surely, the point of TDF is/was to foster community driven contributions by all ?

If a languishing codebase was already there, and people are now prepared to update it and have a go at making something of it, shouldn't TDF be seen to be supporting such an initiative ?

Reversing the decision to atticize LOOL would not be contrary to that aim, or am I missing something ?

Alex

#8

+1

Pada tanggal Sen, 11 Jul 2022 pukul 03.42 Daniel A. Rodriguez <drodriguez@libreoffice.org> menulis:

#9

Hi all,

Thanks for sharing your opinions, but the statement here is factual incorrect:

We, the undersigned, would like to express our great concern regarding the definitive closure of the repository of what was LibreOffice Online. ...

People interested can find lots of discussion in the archives as well as information on what they and others can do to create the software they like, also under TDF.

Cheers,
Cor

#10

Hi all,

I think it is justified to spent some more words on this open letter. And do so already now.

We, the undersigned, would like to express our great concern regarding the definitive closure of the repository of what was LibreOffice Online.
...

This statement, on which people have been encouraged to vote on, is false.
There is no decision nor proposal for the "definitive closure of the repository of what was LibreOffice Online". And people that worked on this statement/open letter should know that (1).

It has been explained more than once, also on this list, that no one is blocking anyone on working on the code and project.
More in detail: there are clear conditions for atticization for projects and also for de-atticization of projects. These normally applies to this the repository as well.
All has been agreed upon by the active LibreOffice contributors in the ESC.
And the reason is to prevent ghost-repositories to hang actively on TDF's infra. The reason is not to stop anyone to work on the code he/she loves. How beautiful and simple it that.

[ For reference:
1) (lazy looking at my own mail, but there are more around with even better info I guess) see e.g.:
https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00746.html
https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00771.html ]

As a foundation committed to eliminating the digital divide in society by giving everyone free access to office productivity tools, the most important thing is to demonstrate that we are committed to offering alternatives to all those individuals and organizations that lack the resources to hire corporate services.

No doubt about foundations objectives, I refer to a workshop/discussion that will be held at the LibOCOn in Milan.
Something that - as far as I've noticed - has only been receiving support (2).

2) https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00748.html and replies to that!

...
To avoid the process of atticization, as the clock is already ticking, and, at the same time, emphasize the global nature of the foundation we urge full consideration of the two proposals that have been made so far.
...

And finally wrt these proposals: no one is blocking anyone to work on these.

Greetings,
Cor

#11

Dreaming is free, but not for TDF, the great effort needed for this matter, without establishing a plausible plan, will lead us to invest resources, material and personal, perhaps for nothing, detracting them from other areas, also important, too much risk.

OTOH, sorry but having Andreas (hope not misleading the person) as reference does not have my support, I have always seen in him a bit of a bitter attitude.

I also don’t like the confrontation with the companies that support us, instead of finding ways to work together, seems to me the reason to be here. While I think there is no other solution, especially on this matter. Hope we can get some bridges back.

I can give +1 if a credible plan is established.

Regards.

Miguel Ángel Ríos

#12

+1

It is so necessary in terms of competitively. I do not have a say technical wise.

#13

+1

We, the undersigned, would like to express our great concern regarding the definitive closure of the repository of what was LibreOffice Online. Considering the mission of facilitating access to information and communication technologies as a fundamental and strategic achievement of inclusion and exercise of digital sovereignty.

As a foundation committed to eliminating the digital divide in society by giving everyone free access to office productivity tools, the most important thing is to demonstrate that we are committed to offering alternatives to all those individuals and organizations that lack the resources to hire corporate services.

We intend with this message, an absolute rethinking of the vote that established the current condition of the repository, which belongs to the community and should welcome improvements from all over the community, as we consider it goes against the objectives outlined by The Document Foundation.

To avoid the process of atticization, as the clock is already ticking, and, at the same time, emphasize the global nature of the foundation we urge full consideration of the two proposals that have been made so far.

Support Andreas Mantke’s effort to revive the LOOL project. Who has already succeeded in upgrading the pre-fork code base to current libraries and dependencies versions. (https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00684.html)
Implement the OxOffice On Line Community Version fork that already has several improvements before the LOOL version has been frozen, including those implemented in the commercial versions, and bugs fixed by them as they see fit. (https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00694.html)

In any case, since this is a community version TDF must show its commitment to its core values and do everything in their power to grow LOOL community in order to continue development.

Sincerely yours, LibreOffice Community Members and Activists around the world.

–
Uso LibreOffice, por privacidad, seguridad y control de mis datos.
Da un vistazo a la mejor suite de oficina: https://es.libreoffice.org
O únete a la Comunidad Hispana: https://matrix.to/#/#hispanos:documentfoundation.org

–
Postings on this list are considered private communication among TDF members. Please do NOT share outside this circle!

Dr. Ayhan Yalçınsoy (PhD)
Management and Organization
+90 507 231 57 79

Pisi Linux Developer
Libreoffice Translator

#14

+1

Paolo

#15

-1

I think BoD should handle LOOL repository according to attic / deattic policy, measuring how many people devote their time to improve the code and make release happen, instead of based on how many people want it, by replying +1.

Just check our own marketing material [1] that compares LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice on the number of releases and code changes. That’s what attic policy is trying to avoid. And I bet it’s far from enough just satisfying the deattic threshold in order to be an active project. For the project to sustain, you’ll need core developers, regular contributors, and other newbies who have potential to make contribution. Based on my observation, LOOL has none of them now.

Given that repositories of LOOL, LODE, OSSII are competing the scarce resources, i.e. developers.
As a developer, I’ll choose the project that is most active to contribute to and advice others to do so. I tried to make few patches for Apache Office even after I had started to contribute to LibreOffice many years ago. I stopped doing so because it took me more than twice effort since the code had diverged. Not to mention that developers need to collaborate with each other. Considering these, I think LOOL under TDF little chance to grow again. I’d advice accept the fact that the developer community has moved away. Just let it go as if it had never happened. Do better and form a robust developer community first next time.

OTOH, I think the idea of facilitating access to information and communication is admirable. It’s worth us to brainstorm the method to achieve the goal. There are other technology worth considering, for example, investing on Android version or WebAssembly port of LibreOffice. LOOL need not to be the only solution. It is not even a feasible solution at the moment.

Best regards.

[1] https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/libreoffice-vs-openoffice/

Daniel A. Rodriguez <drodriguez@libreoffice.org> 於 2022年7月11日 週一 凌晨4:42寫道：

We, the undersigned, would like to express our great concern regarding the definitive closure of the repository of what was LibreOffice Online. Considering the mission of facilitating access to information and communication technologies as a fundamental and strategic achievement of inclusion and exercise of digital sovereignty.

As a foundation committed to eliminating the digital divide in society by giving everyone free access to office productivity tools, the most important thing is to demonstrate that we are committed to offering alternatives to all those individuals and organizations that lack the resources to hire corporate services.

We intend with this message, an absolute rethinking of the vote that established the current condition of the repository, which belongs to the community and should welcome improvements from all over the community, as we consider it goes against the objectives outlined by The Document Foundation.

To avoid the process of atticization, as the clock is already ticking, and, at the same time, emphasize the global nature of the foundation we urge full consideration of the two proposals that have been made so far.

Support Andreas Mantke’s effort to revive the LOOL project. Who has already succeeded in upgrading the pre-fork code base to current libraries and dependencies versions. (https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00684.html)
Implement the OxOffice On Line Community Version fork that already has several improvements before the LOOL version has been frozen, including those implemented in the commercial versions, and bugs fixed by them as they see fit. (https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2022/msg00694.html)

In any case, since this is a community version TDF must show its commitment to its core values and do everything in their power to grow LOOL community in order to continue development.

Sincerely yours, LibreOffice Community Members and Activists around the world.

–
Uso LibreOffice, por privacidad, seguridad y control de mis datos.
Da un vistazo a la mejor suite de oficina: https://es.libreoffice.org
O únete a la Comunidad Hispana: https://matrix.to/#/#hispanos:documentfoundation.org

–
Postings on this list are considered private communication among TDF members. Please do NOT share outside this circle!

–

#16

-1

I think BoD should handle LOOL repository according to attic / deattic
policy, measuring how many people devote their time to improve the code and
make release happen, instead of based on how many people want it, by
replying +1.

Just check our own marketing material [1] that compares LibreOffice and
Apache OpenOffice on the number of releases and code changes. That's what
attic policy is trying to avoid. And I bet it's far from enough just
satisfying the deattic threshold in order to be an active project. For the
project to sustain, you'll need core developers, regular contributors, and
other newbies who have potential to make contribution. Based on my
observation, LOOL has none of them now.

As LOOL repo was frozen 18 month ago there's no chance to contribute directly, that's why the two alternatives mentioned where cited in the first place.

Given that repositories of LOOL, LODE, OSSII are competing the scarce
resources, i.e. developers.
As a developer, I'll choose the project that is most active to contribute
to and advice others to do so. I tried to make few patches for Apache
Office even after I had started to contribute to LibreOffice many years
ago. I stopped doing so because it took me more than twice effort since
the code had diverged. Not to mention that developers need to collaborate
with each other. Considering these, I think LOOL under TDF little chance to
grow again. I'd advice accept the fact that the developer community has
moved away. Just let it go as if it had never happened. Do better and form
a robust developer community first next time.

Maybe some developers followed the decision of one company, but both alternatives shows that it's possible to work with scarce resources.

OTOH, I think the idea of facilitating access to information and
communication is admirable. It's worth us to brainstorm the method to
achieve the goal. There are other technology worth considering, for
example, investing on Android version or WebAssembly port of LibreOffice.
LOOL need not to be the only solution. It is not even a feasible solution
at the moment.

Well, TDF has a commitment that cannot be avoided. So, in the terms proposed, it's feasible.

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