Minutes of TDF in-person meeting Board-MC-Team (October 8, 2024)

TDF in-person meeting Board-MC-Team
Tuesday, October 8, 2024
Belval University, Luxemburg

Present: Christian, Jona, Xisco, Eliane, Florian, Michael W, Italo, Shinji, Guilhem, Olivier, Jonathan, László, Andreas, Stephan, Gabriele, Sophie, Mike S, Osvaldo, Paolo (joined at 10:20), Juan José (initially remotely, then joined at 11:10)

Remote: Simon, Pranam, Ilmari, Hossein, Juan José (present in person from 11:10 on), Marco Marinello

Meeting started at 10:30 Luxembourg time (08:30 UTC)

Thanks to Paolo for organizing the LibreOffice Conference 2024

MC situation

  • brief summary (Florian)

Current TDF situation

  • brief summary (Florian)

    • issues regarding audit, trademark, tenders
    • trademark licenses granted at no cost
    • urgently needed procurement policy to restart tendering
    • Carlo Piana working on a draft
    • restart tendering expected for next year
    • progress w/ the current board
  • propose to act proactively regarding authorities (Paolo)

    • clearly fix the issues
    • we have to show that we are working to fix the issues
    • get legal advise, plan the steps, then act clearly
  • auditor has been contracted (Florian)

    • now is contracted and started, will finish in November
    • could take longer as maybe arising questions have to be answered
    • currently more than 1 million of free reserves
  • important to follow rules and regulations (Paolo)

  • TDF is doing progress (Florian)

    • we are working hard to get back to tendering
  • big picture is more complex (László)

    • main focus is development
    • so in extremis would not mean end of LibreOffice development
    • a lot of social problems
    • need an expert to facilitate solutions
    • my focus is a positive view of future development
    • all community want to solve problems
    • loosing non-profit status is not a single issue part part of the overall situation
    • biggest pro is (dedication to) development
    • a lot of interpretation of legal advise
  • due different main issues (Italo)

    • first: result of what happened in the past
    • decided to use a procurement policy not suited for non-profit foundation
    • legal opinion came in in 2020
    • was written in legal terms and thus difficult to understand to full extent by non-lawyers
    • worked on a cleaned version of a huge German document
    • turns out that boards exceeded power of representation being detrimental for a non-profit
    • first: clean the past
    • second: stick w/ the rules for future
    • put in place some more regulations to have clear guidelines
    • e.g. for elections, tenders
    • technical term is: excess of power of representation
    • per se not related to Conflict of Interest
    • but CoI could add more problems regarding excess of power of representation
    • need to work together
    • need of an easy to understand communication
    • thus more transparency is needed
  • in reply to László respect a lot quality and expertise of the developers (Olivier)

    • in my view there is a bubble
    • we don’t listen to users
    • importance of non-developer community is very high
    • lack of communication between devs and non-devs
  • value very much any input (László)

  • CoI is an indicator that sth. is going wrong (Paolo)

    • instructing lawyers in the way to get a specific outcome is problematic
  • difficult to be involved in the past and solve all these issues and aiming at the same time working on the future of TDF (Sophie)

  • not put too much time on the past (Stephan)

    • it’s sure this has to been cleaned up
  • we have to understand what was going on (Eliane)

  • need more transparency (Sophie)

  • ask for support in this difficult situation (Osvaldo)

    • ask for giving us trust
    • one has to understand that not all can be disclosed
  • tree jumped in front of Neumann’s car (László)

    • so called ‘untouchable’ people are valuable connectors
  • wrong approach those to leave gathering behind TDF and its community and project (Stephan)

  • not follow blindly narratives (Florian)

  • take in consideration the legal situation (László)

  • in the past had never rejected a person from membership (Gabriele)

    • community has been created as a friendly one
    • avoiding drastic measures
    • for the first time a person has been rejected and the MC’s decision was contested
    • could be scaring for those MC members now in charge
    • wording has to be precise
  • we have to understand clearly that we are in a big mess (Olivier)

    • respectful behavior would facilitate solving issues but not a toxic, aggressive, arrogant attitude
    • but excellence is no excuse for misbehaviour
  • give all my respect and recognition for their excellence (Paolo)

    • but then people started acting in their own commercial interest
    • personally I had to suffer from false information spread
    • some were intentionally to push out people
  • am very sorry for the lost of valuable trustees in the past (Eliane)

  • call out people acting in a toxic way (Florian)

    • don’t allow trade in code for bad behaviour
    • TDF to fix legal issues but urgently culture of behaviour too
  • makes sense to put effort in finding solutions (Hossein)

  • maybe CoC policy can act proactively (Guilhem)

  • problem is we’re running out of people (Sophie)

  • not providing a welcoming environment puts at risk the existing of TDF (Andreas)

    • should fix it asap during the current MC term
  • need to dedicate time for the project (Eliane)

    • not acceptable to get messages in private to convince me to act in a certain direction
    • in my view TDF can’t continue in the way it was for the around last years
  • is there a follow-up evaluating the reasons why people quit (Guilhem)

  • yes, we evaluate the reason if/when given (Gabriele)

    • mostly even trying to get one back
  • does MC is aware of people e.g. excluded from Ask? (Sophie)

    • to prevent people from login/register again

lunch break from 13:05 to 15:25

  • think about how to increase participation from trustees (Stephan)

  • we have this ‘liaison’ thing (Oliver)

  • need to be pushed more (Sophie)

    • also with the help/support of MC
  • having weekly meeting w/ Brazilian community (Olivier)

  • maybe misunderstandings about kind of bylaws having conf. only in Europe (what isn’t true) (MikeS)

  • different groups of trustees (Andreas)

    • some kind of ‘specializing’, e.g. dev, documentation, translation, etc.
    • trustees have an important role wrt right to vote board and MC
  • don’t think lack of information is an issue here (Hossein)

    • after initial becoming a member there is no more further explanation how and where to start to get more involved
    • takes a long time to get familiar with the processes
    • improve familiarizing with TDF and its bodies
    • need probably improving communication there
    • currently can even be very scaring for (new) trustees
    • find ways for a more motivating communication in that regard
  • interesting q. from Eliane (Stephan)

    • how (interested) people are approached to become a Trustee
  • is there a process?

  • make people proud to be a member (Olivier)

  • having some benefits for members (Gabriele)

    • e.g. discount on hardware
  • distributed remaining t-shirts (Olivier)

    • were asked to take a selfie
    • was a great success
  • socializing is an important point (Guilhem)

    • e.g. 1 week conf. of Debian
  • sometimes is because of prestige coming with the membership

  • some trustees asked for more involvement about the software (MikeS)

  • suggestions proposed getting vanished is a frustrating experience (Olivier)

  • invite people to a conference and pay for travel/acccomodation (Juan José)

  • TDF not being a ‘travel agency’ (Florian)

  • want to ask: Do you think that the project is organizing as it should do? (Italo)

  • TDF to take a proactive steps to originate potential members (Xisco)

  • LibreOffice business card (László)

    • be more scientific
    • Italo started a book/newspaper already
    • encourage publishing in scientific papers
    • more sharing with a huge ‘scientific/academic world’
  • improve conversation wrt collaborate/corporate with universities (Hossein)

    • more push/effort needed in this promising looking area
    • not forget mobile and pad platform
    • have contents in multiple language be in human or AI translations
    • sensible invest in localised content
  • I introduce the membership topic to mentees (Ilmari)

    • opportunity to ask questions
    • challenge is having contributed for 6 months before becoming trustee
  • LibreOffice ambassadors still alive or abandoned because of Covid? (Simon)

  • often companies are still in (Italo)

    • giant companies investing here
    • our market niche 30 billion dollars
    • we have serious issues to enter in specific areas
  • e.g. OpenSUSEConf. offers opportunity (Sophie)

  • wrt. LO Ambassador and universities in India lot of people are interested (Pranam)

  • in Mexico students are mostly linked w a company helping to become graduate (Juan José)

  • about prestige being a trustee (Olivier)

    • TDF to have a plan for trustees and also for marketing
    • work together to get a solid branding
    • using the already good branding
    • others invested much better in branding, e.g. OnlyOffice
    • improve market strategy to be more present in industry
    • need of a broader plan for the future
  • from my experience very low interest from the students for FLOSS (Osvaldo)

    • there were attempts in the past but unfortunately the few students left
    • young generation is such customized to everything work ‘out of the box’
  • lot information to be share (László)

…/…

need of TDF logo

revamp appearance of blog posts

make more shining TDF / LibreOffice

Donations

  • summary (Italo)

In-person meeting ended at 18:25 Luxembourg time (16:25 UTC)

FYI: some useful information about board/mc/team meeting last year.

As it turns out, Discourse sadly only seems to provide limited formatting options. We might need a different format for the next notes then indeed, I agree.

@mikesaunders worked on updated minutes, I’ve edited the posting. Thanks!

1 Like

Some comments:

@floeff and whoever prepared the minutes: First names are not good enough, because there are duplicates, and even if there aren’t now, we could get them by people joining - so a few years into the future nobody knows which is which. At least the beginning of the session minutes, full names should be listed.

What do these two sentences mean? @nemeth ?

Words to live by. Unfortunately in some key aspects, we are continuing that way.

Not sure which Stephan was in the meeting (or maybe it’s Stephane Guillou?), but regardless: Have a look at my 2022 presentation for some potential ideas. It’s not about this exact subject but many of the ideas may be relevant.