Harassment and lack of code of conduct

Board Discuss
#1

Hello world & BoD,

it has been brought to my attention that one of our (female) contributors, who
is also a TDF member (this is why membership committee is in Cc:) has been
harassed in a private mail by someone who reads development and general user
mailing list. I have the details, mail addresses etc. and can provide them via
private channel, for obvious reasons I'm not doing that here.

This is quite a strong incentive for me to bring up the topic that is
perceived as controversial by many, namely (the lack of) code of conduct in
the community around TDF and (the absence of) action plan, as for what to do,
when bad things happen.

The most frequent (and in fact the only) argument I hear when mentioning code
of conduct, or the fact that TDF has no code of conduct to be precise, is "but
but but, we're such a bunch of nice guys, nothing bad has ever happened here,
nobody has ever been harassed, so why bother, why restrict freedom of speech
preemptively etc."

Let me state very clearly that I don't buy that argument. Just because nothing
bad has ever happened to you/people around you/people around people around
you/..., just because nobody ever went public with what has happened to them,
we simply can't assume that nothing bad has ever happened at all. Case in
point, the above incident is at least 5 months old and she only decided to
come out of the closet *now*.

At the very least, in the absence of "real" code of conduct, a clear and
concise public statement (in what particular form, I don't quite care) should
be made by TDF that such behaviour ( = harassment, stalking, etc.) is not
going to be tolerated and the offenders are not going to get away with it.

Related to that, there is no plan of action (or not one that I'd know of) how
to deal with incidents and what steps to take (on mailing lists, IRC, social
networks etc.) when things go wrong. Sure, it's perfectly clear to me that
those plans don't work most of the time and every case has to be dealt with
individually (sometimes e.g. hangout featuring both affected parties and a
mediator is a good solution, sometimes it's the worst thing you can possibly
think of), ...

But again, some public statement by TDF that incidents are going to be dealt
with, we're prepared to act and people are going to be helped when needed
should be made. It'd make people feel more safe.

I volunteer to be a contact person for those cases (in fact, as you can see, I
already am)

Comments, opinions?

Bub.oO

#2

Hi Bubli, thanks for raising the issue.

At the very least, in the absence of "real" code of conduct, a clear and
concise public statement (in what particular form, I don't quite care) should
be made by TDF that such behaviour ( = harassment, stalking, etc.) is not
going to be tolerated and the offenders are not going to get away with it.

I think we should have a real code of conduct. The community has grown
outside the traditional boundaries of FLOSS (where you might find only
nice people, although I am not sure at all), and as any sizeable
community extending the reach to social media should have a real code of
conduct (by the way, we usually have on for conferences, so it should
not be an issue to extend it to the community).

Related to that, there is no plan of action (or not one that I'd know of) how
to deal with incidents and what steps to take (on mailing lists, IRC, social
networks etc.) when things go wrong. Sure, it's perfectly clear to me that
those plans don't work most of the time and every case has to be dealt with
individually (sometimes e.g. hangout featuring both affected parties and a
mediator is a good solution, sometimes it's the worst thing you can possibly
think of), ...

Finding a single policy is indeed almost impossible.

But again, some public statement by TDF that incidents are going to be dealt
with, we're prepared to act and people are going to be helped when needed
should be made. It'd make people feel more safe.

Let's work on a real code of conduct. There are many around which can
fit our needs, and we can use as a basis for ours.

#3

Dear Bubli,
thanks so much for you message.
I totally agree with you and I think TDF needs a code of conduct and the public statement on how to deal similar incidents.

Kind Regards,
–Osvaldo

#4

Hi,

it has been brought to my attention that one of our (female) contributors, who
is also a TDF member (this is why membership committee is in Cc:) has been
harassed in a private mail by someone who reads development and general user
mailing list.

This is of course inacceptable.

This is quite a strong incentive for me to bring up the topic that is
perceived as controversial by many, namely (the lack of) code of conduct in
the community around TDF and (the absence of) action plan, as for what to do,
when bad things happen.

The most frequent (and in fact the only) argument I hear when mentioning code
of conduct, or the fact that TDF has no code of conduct to be precise, is "but
but but, we're such a bunch of nice guys, nothing bad has ever happened here,
nobody has ever been harassed, so why bother, why restrict freedom of speech
preemptively etc."

I agree we'll need such code of conduct. Even if we are (or were?)
a bunch of only friendly people it would be no reason to not have one to
make others feel more safe and secure who are not yet.

Personally I like the Berlin Code of Conduct
http://berlincodeofconduct.org/
which is already supported by various user and hacker groups.

If agreed, I suggest we make a formal decision at Bruxelles during our
meet-ups along FOSDEM.

  Eike

#5

Hi *,

it has been brought to my attention that one of our (female) contributors, who
is also a TDF member (this is why membership committee is in Cc:) has been
harassed in a private mail by someone who reads development and general user
mailing list.

This is of course inacceptable.

It definitely is. But what I am asking myself is:
How would a Code of Conduct help here? I mean people not using common
sense wouldn't suddenly change because there is a code of conduct.

Even more so in the case of using private mail and not using any of
the TDF hosted mailinglists.

This is quite a strong incentive for me to bring up the topic that is
perceived as controversial by many, namely (the lack of) code of conduct in
the community around TDF and (the absence of) action plan, as for what to do,
when bad things happen.

So what *could* be done? Tell that person he/she is a persona non
grata with that behaviour, but apart from that?

The most frequent (and in fact the only) argument I hear when mentioning code
of conduct, or the fact that TDF has no code of conduct to be precise, is "but
but but, we're such a bunch of nice guys, nothing bad has ever happened here,
nobody has ever been harassed, so why bother, why restrict freedom of speech
preemptively etc."

While I'm not opposing a code of conduct, my point is rather that it
wouldn't help, as there's not much TDF could do to prevent such
incidents, if at all only afterwards, but as you say the attacked
hesitate to bring it to attention.
(so a code of conduct without a dedicated point-of-contact for those
issues would be even more pointless)

I agree we'll need such code of conduct. Even if we are (or were?)
a bunch of only friendly people it would be no reason to not have one to
make others feel more safe and secure who are not yet.

Personally I like the Berlin Code of Conduct
http://berlincodeofconduct.org/
which is already supported by various user and hacker groups.

If agreed, I suggest we make a formal decision at Bruxelles during our
meet-ups along FOSDEM.

So say we have adopted the above CoC, and something like a PM
harassment occurs. What can TDF do? revoke TDF membership and revoke
editing/commit privileges. There's not much leverage unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not opposing a CoC, after all it
should be common sense anyway, but I just don't think it is a magic
wand that will help. But if it makes feel people better more assured
in bringing those incidents to TDF's attention, that alone would be
reason enough to have one.

ciao
Christian

#6

Hi Bubli,

it has been brought to my attention that one of our (female) contributors, who
is also a TDF member (this is why membership committee is in Cc:) has been
harassed in a private mail by someone who reads development and general user
mailing list. I have the details, mail addresses etc. and can provide them via
private channel, for obvious reasons I'm not doing that here.

  Glad you've got all the details here, no-one should be harassed in the
project. Lets take some action: can you bring the specific problem to
the board privately to start addressing that ?

This is quite a strong incentive for me to bring up the topic that is
perceived as controversial by many, namely (the lack of) code of conduct in
the community around TDF and (the absence of) action plan, as for what to do,
when bad things happen.

  I believe the board should discuss and come up with a policy here - my
preference is for one that does not introduce a privileged diversity
police de-coupled from our meritocracy and focused on
micro-aggressions[1] - it sounds like you don't want that either =)
which is great - but that's always the fear. Clearly however, this is
for the board to decide.

  Presumably some fairly general statement: that we don't expect
harassment from anyone in the community - with re-assurance that if you
-feel- you have been harassed - please contact XYZ individuals /
whatever alias in confidence to report it - and we will work with you
patiently to bring a resolution. With a description of who will be
included there, how the complaint will be handled etc.

"but but but, we're such a bunch of nice guys, nothing bad has ever happened
here, nobody has ever been harassed, so why bother, why restrict freedom of
speech

  I'm aware of some sensitive situations in the past that have been
handled adroitly by some community members. At some conference or other
we had had a: "If you have any concerns talk to Bubli or Michael"
announcement early at the beginning - I forget the language; that seems
entirely appropriate for the project as a whole.

Case in point, the above incident is at least 5 months old and she only
decided to come out of the closet *now*.

  That is bad indeed.

At the very least, in the absence of "real" code of conduct, a clear and
concise public statement (in what particular form, I don't quite care) should
be made by TDF that such behaviour ( = harassment, stalking, etc.) is not
going to be tolerated and the offenders are not going to get away with it.

  Sounds sensible; if we can define that in a way that is helpful. In
fact - I personally thing that defining harassment is a really bad way
to do this - I would -strongly- prefer a casuistic story-telliing
approach - that explains how bad things can happen - and how they get be
resolved to help people understand. I've been itching for the time to
write that for a while.

  I'm not a fan of [2]

  "Harassment includes, but is not limited to:
   Verbal comments that reinforce social structures of domination
   [related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual
   orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race,
   age, religion, [your specific concern here]."

  eg.

Related to that, there is no plan of action (or not one that I'd know of) how
to deal with incidents and what steps to take (on mailing lists, IRC, social
networks etc.) when things go wrong.

  Yep, we should come up with a plan.

But again, some public statement by TDF that incidents are going to be dealt
with, we're prepared to act and people are going to be helped when needed
should be made. It'd make people feel more safe.

  Sounds good to me; so - I'd suggest we come up with something at FOSDEM
at our in-person board meeting. Personally I don't think the whole
membership list is a great forum if we want to avoid getting
side-tracked into gender-politics discussions that can run progress into
the ground =)

I volunteer to be a contact person for those cases (in fact, as you can see, I
already am)

  I like that; but I would strongly prefer that there be a diversity of
perspectives on the topic in those handling this. It also seems vitally
important to me that there be some suitable degree of transparency and
community input in proportion to whatever sanctions we dream up: which
after all could potentially have significant even career related impact
on people working around LibreOffice.

  Anyhow - thanks for handling this case & getting the ball rolling !

  ATB,

    Michael.

[1] - http://contributor-covenant.org/
[2] - http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy

#7

>> it has been brought to my attention that one of our (female)
>> contributors, who is also a TDF member (this is why membership committee
>> is in Cc:) has been harassed in a private mail by someone who reads
>> development and general user mailing list.
>
> This is of course inacceptable.

It definitely is. But what I am asking myself is:
How would a Code of Conduct help here? I mean people not using common
sense wouldn't suddenly change because there is a code of conduct.

The existence of code of conduct doesn't mean that people will suddenly stop
behaving like jerks, just like the existence of (civil, criminal) laws doesn't
mean people don't go ahead and break the law.

It does mean, though, that if they do, there will be consequences (when was
the last time you got speeding ticket?)

Even more so in the case of using private mail and not using any of
the TDF hosted mailinglists.

This is why harassers frequently harass in private, as the likelihood they
will get away with it and the victims will not speak up is orders of magnitude
higher. It is irrational (not that those people would otherwise behave
rationally *grin*) to harass on public ML, where they can be immediately named
and shamed and called out on their crap.

So what *could* be done? Tell that person he/she is a persona non
grata with that behaviour, but apart from that?

Many things, some less severe, some more radical: give people stern warning,
block mail/bugzilla accounts, ban from IRC, kick offenders out of events,
recommend that they rather not participate in any future events, publicly name
and shame them, ask your mobster acquaintances to deal with the issue (not
entirely serious with that one :-)),...

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not opposing a CoC, after all it
should be common sense anyway, but I just don't think it is a magic
wand that will help.

Given how diverse the community around TDF is by now, "common sense" is
actually not so "common" anymore... or in other words, what I also told
Michael yesterday, one person's joke is another person's micro-aggression

But if it makes feel people better more assured
in bringing those incidents to TDF's attention, that alone would be
reason enough to have one.

It does indeed (make people feel more safe and believe that if they speak up,
they will be helped instead of being ignored or silenced)

B.

#8

How would a Code of Conduct help here? I mean people not using common
sense wouldn't suddenly change because there is a code of conduct.

Common sense is neither common nor uniform.

One huge issue is vocabulary.
This isn't just the difference between British English and Central
European English. It is more than a word that is acceptable in some
dialects of English, are completely unacceptable in other dialects.

Furthermore, some groups perceive simply using specific dialects to be
offensive. On the flipside, other groups consider some cultures to be,
by definition, boorish, uncouth, and offensive. (Do you need specific
examples here?)

While I'm not opposing a code of conduct,

A Code of Conduct is a description of expected behaviours.

The _Berlin Code of Conduct_ is a useful starting point.

There are two groups that quite unintentionally run afoul of it:
* The population that treats "No" as indications of an objection, rather
than as being "No";
* The population that treats anything other immediate compliance and
agreement, as a deliberate affront;

Where things get tricky, is getting members of either of those groups,
to understand where, and how the boundaries are different. Much more
difficult, is helping those individuals learn to recognize such behaviour.

But if it makes feel people better more assured in bringing those incidents to TDF's attention,

That is the usual reason for having Codes of Conduct.

###

For the record, I'm not opposed to a Code of Conduct.

What I have experienced, is that as groups become less homogeneous, so
the individual's understanding of what it means, becomes less uniform.
I'm not quite at the point of saying that as homogeneity decreases
arithmetically, congruency in understanding what it means, decreases
exponentially, but am running pretty close to so doing.

jonathon

#9

Hi all!

At least, a Code of Conduct will turn explicit some values that we, as TDF, consider the basis of personal relations in the community. It’s a way to represent the maturity of TDF as a plural organization. I totally agree.

About the Berlin CoC, it seems an intersting first step. If it will be our choice, my suggestion is that the rule of ‘community organizers’ should be clarified (will it be a task for the BoD? For the MC?).

Best!

Gustavo

#10

Hi Michael, Bubli,

Im late to this discussion, sorry.

  I'm aware of some sensitive situations in the past that have been
handled adroitly by some community members. At some conference or other
we had had a: "If you have any concerns talk to Bubli or Michael"
announcement early at the beginning - I forget the language; that seems
entirely appropriate for the project as a whole.

That was LibreOffice conference 2012 Berlin, mostly on my initiative.

Bubli wrote:

The most frequent (and in fact the only) argument I hear when mentioning code
of conduct, or the fact that TDF has no code of conduct to be precise, is "but
but but, we're such a bunch of nice guys, nothing bad has ever happened here,
nobody has ever been harassed, so why bother, why restrict freedom of speech
preemptively etc."

FWIW, I certainly considered asking to implement a CoC for TDF. The reason for
not doing so was not the above, but that I feared a community with a CoC that
is not acted upon is even worse off than one without a CoC[1]. Seeing that we never
even repeated the basic announce of contact persons that we did at the Berlin
conference made me somewhat reluctant to push the topic.

Seeing the discussion here, it seems though there apparently now is wider support
for a CoC now that will not only be rubberstamped, but also acted upon -- which
is encouraging. So yes, this really should be a topic at FOSDEM.

Best,

Bjoern

[1] Because you can only introduce a CoC that is trusted by those that need it
    once. Trust is an account that you cannot deposit to once it got sour.

#11

We should also include João's reactions in this discussion.
There should be a real stop to defame a member or anybody else in our community.

Maybe if we can't get a code of conduct we should have a plan of reacting/blocking.

#12

The correct place for a code of conduct that would apply to this situation
is https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/members/application/ where
we need an extra accptance check box for "the Foundation's code of
conduct". The Code should indicate that a Trustee can forfeit membership
for a serious breach.

S.

#13

Hi K-J & Simon,

    We should also include João's reactions in this discussion.
    There should be a real stop to defame a member or anybody else in
    our community.

  Indeed - it is good timing =)

    Maybe if we can't get a code of conduct we should have a plan of
    reacting/blocking.

  I suspect we will get a CoC - but probably not in the next minutes or
days; these things take time.

The Code should indicate that a Trustee can forfeit membership
for a serious breach.

  Interestingly, he was not a member anymore, and had been trying to
remove himself from that mailing list for quite some time - it appears.
So - in this (rather unusual) case, I suspect encouraging quicker
curation of the mailing list would have avoided this problem.

  ATB,

    Michael.

#14

Hi Michael,

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