Agenda for TDF board meeting on Friday, August 14th at 1300 Berlin time (UTC+2)

Board Discuss
#1

I’m guessing based on the information provided in the titles that the TDF is looking to set up a The Document “Co-operative/Corporation”.

If it is the case you’re setting up a business entity, may I strongly plead towards setting up a multi-stakeholder platform co-operative instead of a corporation?

  1. CIB, Collabora, etc. would have equal voting rights as organization members
  2. Donor/subscribers would have voting rights as personal members.
  3. TDF/TDC staff would have voting rights as worker members.

The weighting of votes could be determined by contributions, so maybe (60% org weight, 30% member weight, 10% worker weight).

Trebor Scholz, a german professor at The New School in NYC is a proponent of platform co-ops and would likely be quite interested in helping out.

There are a lot of other platform co-op enthusiasts that would likely help with this work as well, it would help with task 3113 (though I don’t know why Heiko is so resistant against creating an online forum like Discourse considering the community is clamouring for it.)

There are also lots of resources online with templates, etc. to set up a co-operative organization; in Europe the ICA (Belgium), CICOPA (Italy), etc. would be excited to help I would imagine.

This also would be a potential revenue stream as voting membership could be set as an annual requirement to maintain good standing. Consider that Taz.de - a media co-op in Berlin, is purely funded by it’s members, despite the availability of free news around the world and states.

If you’d be interested in going in this direction I’d be happy to provide some volunteer time to assist in creation/governance.

Cheers,
Kevin

#2

Hi Kevin,

thanks for sharing your idea, sounds interesting, if I understood it right it is the “Genossenschaft” you are mentioning?

It is worth to think about and value it if such an organisation could help to full fill the solution for handling app store activities and get more code contributions financed, under control of TDF.

What about discussing the idea in the public part of the meeting tomorrow, are you available there? I would love to have your full name then to ask you in the meeting to say a few sentence about the idea.

Thanks again, hopefully speaking tomorrow a bit about the idea, all the best
Lothar Becker

Am 13.08.2020 um 16:19 schrieb Kev M:

I’m guessing based on the information provided in the titles that the TDF is looking to set up a The Document “Co-operative/Corporation”.

If it is the case you’re setting up a business entity, may I strongly plead towards setting up a multi-stakeholder platform co-operative instead of a corporation?

  1. CIB, Collabora, etc. would have equal voting rights as organization members
  2. Donor/subscribers would have voting rights as personal members.
  3. TDF/TDC staff would have voting rights as worker members.

The weighting of votes could be determined by contributions, so maybe (60% org weight, 30% member weight, 10% worker weight).

Trebor Scholz, a german professor at The New School in NYC is a proponent of platform co-ops and would likely be quite interested in helping out.

There are a lot of other platform co-op enthusiasts that would likely help with this work as well, it would help with task 3113 (though I don’t know why Heiko is so resistant against creating an online forum like Discourse considering the community is clamouring for it.)

There are also lots of resources online with templates, etc. to set up a co-operative organization; in Europe the ICA (Belgium), CICOPA (Italy), etc. would be excited to help I would imagine.

This also would be a potential revenue stream as voting membership could be set as an annual requirement to maintain good standing. Consider that Taz.de - a media co-op in Berlin, is purely funded by it’s members, despite the availability of free news around the world and states.

If you’d be interested in going in this direction I’d be happy to provide some volunteer time to assist in creation/governance.

Cheers,
Kevin

#3

Hi Lothar,

Genossenschaft is the German term, yes.

I can participate on the call but I would have to leave at 13:30 Berlin time for another appointment.

If the control of the entity is to remain under the TDF, it may not be applicable. A Genossenschaft is structured to be controlled by it’s members. Typically the structure involves one member, one vote, however in multi-stakeholder co-operatives that voting structure can be weighted so that certain classes of voters have more vote weight than others.

The TDF could engage into a legal arrangement with the co-operative that implies control of actions based on a contractual service arrangement… but theoretically the board of the co-op would be run independently. If it’s the case that the TDF must control the entity then forming a co-op may be an overly complicated matter.

I’ll attend the conference at 13:00 Berlin time tomorrow and if there is time for me to speak on it before 13:30 I will.

Cheers,
Kevin

On 13/08/2020 11:42 Lothar K. Becker lothar@documentfoundation.org wrote:

Hi Kevin,

thanks for sharing your idea, sounds interesting, if I understood it right it is the “Genossenschaft” you are mentioning?

It is worth to think about and value it if such an organisation could help to full fill the solution for handling app store activities and get more code contributions financed, under control of TDF.

What about discussing the idea in the public part of the meeting tomorrow, are you available there? I would love to have your full name then to ask you in the meeting to say a few sentence about the idea.

Thanks again, hopefully speaking tomorrow a bit about the idea, all the best
Lothar Becker

Am 13.08.2020 um 16:19 schrieb Kev M:

I’m guessing based on the information provided in the titles that the TDF is looking to set up a The Document “Co-operative/Corporation”.

If it is the case you’re setting up a business entity, may I strongly plead towards setting up a multi-stakeholder platform co-operative instead of a corporation?

  1. CIB, Collabora, etc. would have equal voting rights as organization members
  2. Donor/subscribers would have voting rights as personal members.
  3. TDF/TDC staff would have voting rights as worker members.

The weighting of votes could be determined by contributions, so maybe (60% org weight, 30% member weight, 10% worker weight).

Trebor Scholz, a german professor at The New School in NYC is a proponent of platform co-ops and would likely be quite interested in helping out.

There are a lot of other platform co-op enthusiasts that would likely help with this work as well, it would help with task 3113 (though I don’t know why Heiko is so resistant against creating an online forum like Discourse considering the community is clamouring for it.)

There are also lots of resources online with templates, etc. to set up a co-operative organization; in Europe the ICA (Belgium), CICOPA (Italy), etc. would be excited to help I would imagine.

This also would be a potential revenue stream as voting membership could be set as an annual requirement to maintain good standing. Consider that Taz.de - a media co-op in Berlin, is purely funded by it’s members, despite the availability of free news around the world and states.

If you’d be interested in going in this direction I’d be happy to provide some volunteer time to assist in creation/governance.

Cheers,
Kevin

#4

Hey Kev,

thx a lot for taking the time & presenting your ideas during the board
call on Friday!

Kev M wrote:

The TDF could engage into a legal arrangement with the co-operative
that implies control of actions based on a contractual service
arrangement.. but theoretically the board of the co-op would be run
independently. If it's the case that the TDF must control the entity
then forming a co-op may be an overly complicated matter.

Yeah, as discussed - I guess for the immediate needs TDF has for a
business entity, a cooperative would unnecessarily complicate matters.

But - going forward their will be other & differently-structured
challenges the community would want to tackle, and for that, a
cooperative might well be a good match.

And as Michael said during the board call, some more ptrs on how such
a thing would look like in Canada, and also how a potential
fully-owned subsidiary could be setup there, would be greatly
appreciated!

All the best, Thorsten

#5

Related to the investigation for a business entity. Is there some kind of roadmap action plan/ strategy. Where to start and what to next. I assume it's starts with some kind of (first) outline of what the desires/requirements around the legal entity are.

I personally envision some kind of 'lock' system/ stepping system. So you start with an outline of requirements. Public hearing; decision (lock) Moving on the next step. It it's working as an early warning system (angry mob?). At the same time preventing a total roll back. Previous are still standing (in principle, there are always exceptions)

It's more or less a kind of communication strategy too. So at which point strategic/ discussion points the 'public' (say Members) get informed. Instead black box system where a end-result is presented. You need to get people along (and informed) and give them an opportunity to contribute.  So you have a way to fend of those people who don't participate, but stick with simply complain about the end result. [Books about change management?]. You get hopefully valuable feedback in the process (not at the end); and nothing is so disappointing/frustrating as the whole project failing or falling apart because of an angry mob. The best intentions can still be badly received

Personally like options/ scenario's/. To communicate that options are considered. Instead of heading/ running (blindly) to one direction. What are the advantages/disadvantages for (say) Canada/German/Britain route. Or even some European entity like: Societas cooperativa Europaea (SCE) [not sure if this actual an option; i had the Societas Europaea, SE in mind]

I personally have no affinity with Canada. So my pretty biased here. The main eco-system partners are Europe based. Similar: Infra and TDF. Also there practical aspects who should be the psychical representative in flesh and blood?  And what about say the incident of Legal Proceedings in Canada (quite a trip for the Board Members). LibreOffice is used worldwide, but practically developed at Europe continent. Also they LibreOffice Conference are in Europe and/or FOSDEM; which reflects what I mean with Europe (content) orientated; and maybe even more specific orientated within the European Union (but that's changing after brexit)

So maybe Canada the most desired place to go in theory, but might be less advisable for other reasons. I prefer things to be around 'home' as there is more affinity (and maybe cultural homogeneity as this tends to be reflected in laws).  And there probably more German Laywers knowing say Dutch or Britain law compared to Lawyers with in depth knowledge of Canadian law. Not even starting about banking/ international payments and all the fuzz around that (money laundering laws) or say exchange rates. I really don't know what they quirks and perks with dealing with Canada are.

These are only some gut feelings. So there is room to argue about this. However, don't assume the Canadian route to be a holy grail or a run race. There are lots of factors to consider. Maybe the Netherlands is a good place. Still a tax haven. Or maybe Luxembourg, does also a pretty good job in that area. Based on travel Germany seems a good choice, pretty in the center of Europe (where the main contributors (and Board Members) are living).

Regards,
Telesto

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