Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra

Board Discuss
#1

Hi,

according to the TDF website
(https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/advisory-board/) LLC
Rubitech-Astra is currently member of the TDF Advisoriy Board. I looked
onto this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RusBITech. There
is stated that their software is used for the Russian government and army.

In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after
breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine.

Regards,
Andreas

#2

I support the request Andreas had make and ask the Board to act as soon as possible.

S.

#3

Hi Andreas,

thanks for spotting this.

While most Russian people and organisations have nothing to do with with the horrible ongoing conflict, RusBITech seems to be mostly engaged with the Russian military complex and we surely don't want to be associated with enablers of what is going on.

Unfortunately this symbolic gesture won't help stopping the destruction and suffering but I agree with you that we should immediately suspend their membership pending further investigation in regards to their position.

Ciao

Paolo

(The above is my own personal view)

#4

Hi,

according to the TDF website
(https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/advisory-board/) LLC
Rubitech-Astra is currently member of the TDF Advisoriy Board. I looked
onto this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RusBITech. There
is stated that their software is used for the Russian government and army.

In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after
breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine

Thanks Andrea for bringing this difficult topic, I support your request too.
Cheers
Sophie

#5

Oups sorry Andreas of course, was a long week :slight_smile:
Cheers
Sophie

#6

Hi Sophie,

thanks for your support.
I also thank Paolo and Simon for their backing too.
It would be great, if TDF could make a decision on this topic during
this evening and create a statement.
I think physical integrity, self-determination, freedom of expression
are indispensable foundations of the LibreOffice community. And TDF
doesn't want to be associated with any member / organization which is
connected to violation of this foundations or with the breach of
international law, attacks against other countries (e.g. the Ukraine) or
war lords.
Although TDF makes usually no political statements maybe there need to
be an exception in this special case.

Regards,
Andreas

#7

Hi all,

I want to express my strong support of this motion from Andreas, Sophie and the urgency expressed by Simon to first suspend and consequently remove an advisory board member, who is affiliated and not in distance of what the Russian government is doing.

My recommendation would be: Suspend them immediately and do not wait too long with this decision.
Then give them 5 days for declaring strongly their distance from all these Russian government activities in public.
If after 5 days it is not fulfilled, remove them from the seat in the advisory board and ask them to remove it from their website.
If they do so you could release a press statement with the acceptance of the declaration of distance of them as ongoing prerequisite of having them in the AB. Any discovered weakening of this statement will be followed by immediately removing them/anybody from the AB.
This is quite similar to a lot of organisations in industry, sports, art etc. doing in case of equivalent issues with persons or affiliates (e.g. a famous Russian conductor of the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra known as a close friend of the Russian president).

Please take also into account as there was mentioned if someone else like from China want to engage for the sake of TDF would be hindered to contribute by that, that an ongoing participation of such a Russian government supporting advisory board member could hinder a lot of other potential contributors for engaging in TDF as well and of which we never get aware. And yes, any other organisation as supporter of a government behaving like this should be aware, that it is not welcomed in the advisory board of TDF.

Because we want the best for TDF in long term we should do that. Sometimes it costs something in short term to follow fundamental values, but in long term it will pay out in the one or other way.

ATB
Lothar

Am 25.02.2022 um 21:17 schrieb Andreas Mantke:

Hi Sophie,

thanks for your support.
I also thank Paolo and Simon for their backing too.
It would be great, if TDF could make a decision on this topic during
this evening and create a statement.
I think physical integrity, self-determination, freedom of expression
are indispensable foundations of the LibreOffice community. And TDF
doesn’t want to be associated with any member / organization which is
connected to violation of this foundations or with the breach of
international law, attacks against other countries (e.g. the Ukraine) or
war lords.
Although TDF makes usually no political statements maybe there need to
be an exception in this special case.

Regards,
Andreas

Am 25.02.22 um 20:27 schrieb Sophie:

Le 25 février 2022 14:29:06 GMT+01:00, Andreas Mantke maand@gmx.de a écrit :

Hi,

according to the TDF website
(https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/advisory-board/) LLC
Rubitech-Astra is currently member of the TDF Advisoriy Board. I looked
onto this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RusBITech. There
is stated that their software is used for the Russian government and army.

In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after
breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine

Thanks Andrea for bringing this difficult topic, I support your request too.
Cheers
Sophie

Regards,
Andreas

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#8

Hi, Andreas, Sophie, all,

I think physical integrity, self-determination, freedom of expression
are indispensable foundations of the LibreOffice community. And TDF
doesn't want to be associated with any member / organization which is
connected to violation of this foundations or with the breach of
international law, attacks against other countries (e.g. the Ukraine) or
war lords.
Although TDF makes usually no political statements maybe there need to
be an exception in this special case.

Thanks for quickly asking TDF's board to take an action on this.
I agree that usually TDF doesn't make political statements and this is an exceptional case that deserves a clear position from our foundation.
I support this motion too and I hope to see an official reply from our board soon.

Marina

#9

Hi Andreas,

thx a lot for bringing this up.

Andreas Mantke wrote:

In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after
breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine.

The board has just decided to suspend the AB membership.

Best,

-- Thorsten

#10

On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 9:29 AM Thorsten Behrens <thb@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

Andreas Mantke wrote:

In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after
breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine.

The board has just decided to suspend the AB membership.

Thanks to the Board for this prompt action. Lothar’s proposal for further steps was a good one. Will TDF be following his proposal?

Cheers

Simon

–

#11

Hi Simon,

Thanks to the Board for this prompt action. Lothar's proposal for further steps was a good one. Will TDF be following his proposal?

I appreciate Lothars proposal in many aspects.
No doubt the board will discuss the situation and next steps (early) next week.

Cheers,
Cor

#12

Hi all,

It is of course good and necessary that we take action here.
What Putin is doing is clearly wrong. Of course one could have discussions on the international political situation that plays a certain role, but that doesn't change my opinion on this act of violence. Also for me it is encouraging that many people in Russia speak up against this war. Doing that is known to be risky and thus brave and I - at a safe distance - would not dare to expect from anyone to follow the example. Then the fact the people work in military/defense industry, doesn't necessarily make them in favor of what is happening now. I know people that work there because they consider it wise to prepare to defense in case one is being attacked. Further more, we know from recent wars (Yugoslavia, Syria, etc. ) that very good friends became enemies after the powers in that country (the word 'leader' is misplaced there IMO) started a war. Therefore, whatever the TDF statement will be, I find in valuable to (try to) interact with the people involved that are with us in the AB.
Furthermore for me the discussion deserves that awareness of the limitations of 'moral right choices'. There are many topics which have important moral aspects (I love them) that can lead to very lengthy and interesting discussions with 'only' arbitrary decisions in the end. And still the talking and listening is valuable, because it helps us to learn; maybe even to learn peace.

Thanks for all input - much appreciated!
& greetings,

Cor

#13

Great work (and quick too).

  I do think we need to make it clear in whatever statement and/or notification we give that the individuals involved are not the problem, and that the door is open to return as/when they clarify their position and/or Russia ceases this horrifying aggression.

  I suggest someone edits the wikipedia page:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RusBITech

  To remove our name.

  Regards,

    Michael.

#14

Hi all,

Hi all,

It is of course good and necessary that we take action here.
What Putin is doing is clearly wrong. Of course one could have
discussions on the international political situation that plays a
certain role, but that doesn't change my opinion on this act of
violence. Also for me it is encouraging that many people in Russia
speak up

I think he is not doing wrong. He is an international criminal, a war
criminal. And thus there is no doubt that he and PutinsWar should be
treated as it is.

against this war. Doing that is known to be risky and thus brave and I
- at a safe distance - would not dare to expect from anyone to follow
the example. Then the fact the people work in military/defense
industry, doesn't necessarily make them in favor of what is

This people in Russia which rais their voice against PutinsWar and his
propaganda are very brave.

happening now. I know people that work there because they consider it
wise to prepare to defense in case one is being attacked. Further
more, we know from recent wars (Yugoslavia, Syria, etc. ) that very
good friends became enemies after the powers in that country (the word
'leader' is misplaced there IMO) started a war. Therefore, whatever
the TDF statement will be, I find in valuable to (try to) interact
with the people involved that are with us in the AB.

You could only interact with people which respect the law of nations and
the charter of the United Nations. Thus if you work for an organization,
which are involved in such offenses, you need to end your engagement and
distance yourself creditable from this organization to get creditable as
a individual again. As long as you stay in connection with this
organization there is no ground for a reconsideration. One needs to work
hard on her/his moral reputation to get credit again.

Regards,
Andreas

#15

Please take also into account as there was mentioned if someone else like from
China want to engage for the sake of TDF would be hindered to contribute by

If I can make a recommendation, create a list of specific criteria that will result in temporary/permanent suspension of an advisory board member, due to the actions of their government. As part of that document, provide the specific steps required for the former advisory board member to be re-instated into that role. (One of the virtues of bureaucratization is that it is administered with abject indifference to all and sundry.)

At the same time, ponder on whether or not there are circumstances in which a board member can be temporarily/permanently suspended due to the actions of either the government of the country in which they reside, or they are a citizen of, and if so, add those criteria to the _Conflict of Interest for Board Members_ document.

Ukraine is not the only flash-point formulated on the basis of a history that is not necessarily part of shared reality.

Because we want the best for TDF in long term we should do that. Sometimes it
costs something in short term to follow fundamental values, but in long term it
will pay out in the one or other way.

+1

jonathon

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