Minutes QA-call 2013-05-03

Hi all,

this is a raw copy of the minutes of the last QA call on 2013-05-31, the original
can be found here:


Please refer to the wikipage for a better formatted format of the minutes.



P.S.: Robinson, it would be awesome if we could drop such a note on the minutes
to the projects@-list in the future so it is kept visible to other parts of the
project. could you take care of that? Even just dropping the link to the wiki
page might be enough TBH.

Agenda + Minutes

Minutes: Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

    Meeting started at: 13:01
    Participants: Robinson, Joel, Petr, Joren, Thomas, Florian R., SteveBell, Bjoern, Mas


    Bjoern and Mas joined later.

Opening Discussion

Pending Items
PENDING ITEM: Proposals regarding our workflow

PUNTED: Until next meeting (May 31) (ran out of time).

    [ACCEPTED] PROPOSAL: Joel: Don't create proposal and AGREE to it on the same day. Instead we should discuss, add a PROPOSAL (keyword in bold), and allow those who do not attend call to reply via email. If no negative feedback by next call, we can mark as AGREED and remove the Item from our PENDING ITEMS list.
    [ACCEPTED] PROPOSAL: Joel: Slow down on some of our proposals/work. E.g. on the creation of the qa.libreoffice.org
    [ACCEPTED] PROPOSAL: Joel: If we make a decision that takes a lot of time for other people, wait a long time; 3+ weeks to hold on for people
    [ACCEPTED] PROPOSAL: Joel: Don't make a rule about how to triage things; Just lead by example

    Joel -- Any objections to the current slate of PROPOSALs?
    We've been waiting a bit more on our
    ACTION: Joel will ask devs/users about moving BugReport page under QA (and perhaps refactoring)


    [DONE] ACTION: Joel will do a test run today, then will email QA List (and core people) and ask for feedback.
        If all is good, Joel will try to ramp up to 50+ a day

    386 bug reports
    Gotten some complaints, but few
    Going to 'my bugs' doesn't display all of one's bugs (e.g. NEEDINFO bugs aren't on there) -- Joel filed a bug report and emailed Tollef.
    ACTION: 2 weeks from now Joel will provide a staff update; 4 weeks from now, will close the bugs as invalid
    Joel -- Feel free to walk away if a user is starting to tick you off

PENDING ITEM: Get French BSA Operational

    [DONE] ACTION: Joel will continue to shepherd the project; Will coordinate with Rob

    ACTION: Joel will do a test of the French BSA and see what is left to do (with Floeff)
    Perhaps we just need to add an email address to the French email list (Floeff has mod rights?)

PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

    [DONE] ACTION: Joel will (try to) contact the maintainer of the LO Extension Site again

    Joel is waiting
    Someone from ESC said that they pinged Andreas, who should in turn ping Joel (but no word yet)
    We need a more permanent solution, but for now, add Cor or Bjoern to bug reports filed against Extensions (they can help you out)
    Bjoern - Once we have things more sorted out, we'll have to find if we can prioritize in other extension improvements
    Mas - Is thinking about joining the Extension (?) Team
    ACTION: Joel will get Mas the information about the Extension bugs problem
        (hopefully will get us some traction on this ITEM)


    ACTION: Joren will create OSX-specific pages
    ACTION: Joel will create Linux-specific pages
    [DONE] ACTION: For everyone - if you want a pic and/or bio on the site, please send that info to Florian R.
    [DONE] ACTION: Florian R. will update Windows-specific pages

    Joel did some work on the front page (but can't publish, as he doesn't have publishing rights yet)
    Joel - Ping him with any updates/tihngs that he should fix (or fix them yourself, if you have appropriate rights)
    Joel - Will try to get Linux-specific page ready by next meeting
    Joel - Add personal information if you like to the Core Team page
    Ping Florian R. with changes/updated information if you would like him to make updates
    Homepage and Windows pages have a solid draft. Team page is close to done.

PENDING ITEM: Should we activate voting on FDO?

    [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will keep shepherding the implementation of this feature

    Bjoern - Tollef said that bugs should be filed for Voting/Bold statement to email
    Joel - I filed bugs :slight_smile:
    [ Joel's bugs: FDO query ]
    Bjoern - Still waiting to hear from Tollef
    ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates

PENDING ITEM: Add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail

    [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will keep working on this feature

    (Same as previous ITEM)
    ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates

PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

    ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard/keywords page

    Joel - Robinson did some work on these
    Robinson - I did some wiki cleanup, but not much regarding content

PENDING ITEM: Use an online collaborative editor for minutes so that they can be viewed as the call progresses

    [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will ask Floeff to install Etherpad on a TDF server somewhere.

    ACTION: Robinson + Jonathan Aqualina will get install instructions for Etherpad to Floeff so that it can then be installed

PENDING ITEM: What to do with releases after EOL

PUNTED: kicking the can down the road (possibly on May 31)

    [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will ping the QA list and specifically ask if Petr or Rainer have comments.
        Here's what we roughly agreed to at the meeting:
            AGREED: For users inquiring about tech support after the EOL date of a release, we politely indicate that the release is EOL and ask them to upgrade to a new version (or go talk to their vendor/distro/paid tech support)
            AGREED: We de-list versions in Bugzilla 6 months after the release has been EOLed.
        April 19 - Robinson emailed QA list soliciting feedback.
        Some resistance to de-listing old versions (per request from anonymous devs)
            Less controversial: de-list EOL builds from the BSA, and de-list alpha/beta builds from FDO once a release has shipped

    Robinson - Here were some suggestions that we had
    Petr - It would be helpful to see how many bugs have been filed against each version in the last year
        We could remove the versions listed for the various RC's and perhaps just keep the final version (e.g. 3.4.5)
    ACTION: Joel will bring up this topic to the ESC
    Joel - If we find a bug that's old and we've removed a point release version from the picker, then we can't label it as clearly
    Robinson - If it's an old enough bug that it's from an old EOL'd release then we should just mark it as BIBISECT, note the SHA1 of the commit that introduced it
        (marking the point version is less important)
    Petr - Can we query these bugs? (will the version be selectable from the version-picker in Bugzilla for queries?)
    Joel - We don't have the manpower to update many of these old bugs and make sure that they're still fresh
    Bjoern - There are 1745 bugs filed against 3.3.0 (or older/inherited) - 3.4.0
        There are also potentially more bugs to address (filed against OO.o before LO was created)
    Joel - We might be able to remove the old (EOL'd, etc..) releases from just the BSA
    ACTION: Robinson will remove a lot of versions from the BSA (for EOL'd versions, collapse to just major versions (X.x)

PENDING ITEM: Locally-hosted Bugzilla

    ACTION: Robinson - Keep this on our agenda so we keep track of things

    No updates

PENDING ITEM: Regressions within a release

    [DONE] ACTION: Joel will email a spreadsheet to Michael/Bjoern so they can take a look at the results from our testing.

    Joel - Accidentally deleted the spreadsheet he made :frowning:
    Bjoern - We're pretty much done on the QA side; Still have some work on the dev side
        Down to about 10 possible regressions in 3.6; he'll try to fix about 9 of them (by backporting the fixes)

PENDING ITEM: Clarify 'version' in Bugzilla

    ACTION: Keep track of where Tollef is with this enhancement
    ACTION: Keep the idea of a Version/Repro Table on our radar until the Version label is changed or we have another solution.

    Still waiting for Tollef
    (can move this Tollef ITEM up with the other ones)
    Joel likes the idea of the Repro Table -- if it can happen some day, that would be cool


    ACTION: Joel will investigate why our IRC bot isn't linking to FDO properly anymore

    Joel - has trouble getting in touch with Cloph
    Mentioned to Meeks that we should have at least 2 people on each project to make sure that we have continuous support for our items

PENDING ITEM: Google+ Events for meetings

    [DONE] ACTION: Florian R. will do this --> Google+ Event: May 31st QA Meeting

    It works! :slight_smile:
    Robinson - I'll add a row to the table at the top of each meeting page

PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

    ACTION: Bjoern/Robinson will investigate the possibility of being able to update the bibisect repository via git

    Bjoern - We could take the existing repository and shove it into a git repository (nightly?)
    [Ed. Note - Also see next ITEM regarding bibisect repositories]

PENDING ITEM: HardHacks and Storing encrypted documents in plaintext

    [DONE] ACTION: If there's something actionable we need to discuss re: Hard Hacks or this bug, please bring it up on the QA/Mailing List or put it on the Agenda for QA/Meetings/2013/May 31.

    The appropriate people know about the bug

New Action Items

All items proposed between meetings go here
NEW ITEM: Clarify Bibisect + Version # (Joel)

PUNTED: (again) As Joel isn't here Currently there are different ways in which we are using bibisct - some are using it and changing version # if the bug exists in 3.6alpha (earliest bibisect), others are using it only sporadically when a bug says regression but not updating version.

    We should get on the same page, if a bug exists in earliest bibisect... do we update version? If so to what?
    If we are going to, should every bug essentially be triaged with bibisect if possible?
    What happens if a bug was around in earliest version but then fixed at some point and then rebroken?

    Joel is confused
    Thinks we should add this info to the bibisect page
    If the bug predates Bibisect40, then we should mark the bug as version '3.5 alpha' (or whatever the correct version is here...)
    ACTION: Joel will ask whoever is updating the bibisect wiki page to note the correct info
    ACTION: Joel will add a note to the Ideas wiki page that our goal is to eventually have everyone use the bibisect repository
        This probably includes bibisecting each bug, etc..
    Robinson has suggested working out of the bibisect repository previously
        It would be great for users to be able to get updated builds by just using git commands ('git remote update', 'git pull', etc..)

NEW_ITEM: Test New Python Wizards

    We've been asked to extensively test the wizards (file -> wizard) because Java has been purged in place of python - need to make sure these are spot on before release

    Joel -- All of the wizards are in Python now (moved from Java). We need to make sure they're tested
    Bjoern - One of the devs was a GSoC intern. Now is the time to ping them about fixes/tweaks
        Just please don't ask them to overhaul the whole UI :slight_smile:
    Make sure everything works (all the knobs and buttons)
    ACTION: Joel will email the QA Team and the mailing list and make sure that everyone knows about this
    Robinson - Maybe find those users that use these wizards? (how to ? -- check the Ask site and filed bugs?)

New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)
NEW ITEM: Title (proposed by J Random Hacker)

    ANNOUNCEMENT: Our next meeting will take place... QA/Meetings/2013/June 14th (Friday) at 13:00 UTC, unless otherwise noted on the QA/Mailing List.

    Bjoern - Something like 1,700 bugs touched this month. Lots of work done!
    Joel - Some 400 of those are the NEEDINFO project

Sure thing. I'll send out to projects@ and QA@ for future meetings.