+1
This approach would be in line with the will of the voters and would be a way out of the current unsatisfactory situation.
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Hi Eliane,
Surely the board elected by the trustees determine what is in TDF and LibreOffice’s interest and what is not? Hopefully they do that in a friendly, respectful and collaborative way.
I think this idea of a “single-best-way” that can be easily known ahead of deep discussion is quite polarizing and dangerous for non-trivial cases. We live in a complicated world, and the board gets all the most complex decisions on its plate: it is a lot for a volunteer board: thank you for serving us all there!
I hope all board members show up, behave openly, listen to others, and then hammer out durable and elegant compromises that are TDF’s position. I expect staff to support that process, and if this is working right - Trustees to encourage board members in their hard work.
On clarity - I think the situation was entirely clear here:
The questions are still not published for whatever reason; the clear ones I answered as shared; the ones that were poorly spelled, and/or sounded like they wanted me to inappropriately reveal confidential personal information about our (past) relationship you didn’t get an answer to.
I called you because I had no response to my E-mail in reply to an ask for help apparently from the board asking to clarify the situation, there was no MC elected, it looked like something silly was happening, and that seemed reason enough to reach out and talk.
It was only after I’d introduced myself and you had recognized my voice that you laughed, and then apparently your battery died. Perhaps I took you by surprise; if so - sorry! I messaged you on Telegram immediately afterwards suggesting talking at some stage - which was rapidly green-ticked - does that mean delivered ? if not read. I value your perspective, and it is always good to talk with you.
Why is important to reach out? surely communicating with people you disagree with is the way to learn & reconcile? it is most important in times like this.
What is your balance of time spent talking directly to people about including them vs. talking to lawyers to try to exclude them? or in a nutshell - did anyone bother to talk directly to Cor yet?
I guess directors are busy looking at the questions etc. on directors@ or the internal directors matrix?
Apart from having a personal life, a family and a job (which in my case is not limited to The Document Foundation), we are trying to provide all the necessary information in a way which is understandable to everyone. Unfortunately, the situation is extremely complex, it is probably not entirely clear to all TDF Members, and in some cases is underestimated in its severity. To get the picture, I had to translate a 26-page legal document from German to Italian, get rid of all the legal redundancies, and make a summary by connecting all the dots. I will try to provide the same summary, but I need some time to draft the text.
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Can the board please share this legal advise now?
(If it’s the same that Italo is talking about, then it’s of course appreciated that he’s translating that, but that does not mandate delaying sharing of the original, nor make it reasonable to not share now. After all, the decision, the comments here, my formal objection … it’s all English.)
Appreciated @italovignoli , however I doubt it’s reasonable if you carry the burden of this all here!
Someone has to carry the burden, and I am the BoD member more used to communicate. Unfortunately, because of the complexity of the situation, explaining it in a simple way - in order to provide a sound rationale which can be understood without entering into all legal details - is challenging.
Let me try, and then we will see if I have been able to clarify the mess.
Were all the Directors able to understand the 26-page legal advice in German to take the decision?
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Please avoid making speculations about documents, directors, reasons, objectives or anything else before having read my post. I am in the process of writing it, and it will unfortunately take some time. By the way, I do not think that even former directors have ever read the document I am referring to, because it is just mentioned by the authors of one legal advice but is not explained in its fundamental details, and I think that this fact has created a large amount of intertwined misunderstandings that have carried on at least for the entire term of the formed BoD (but IMHO even before).
Sorry @Italo, please excuse me, from the context I was understanding, that the document was at the basis of the decision.
The document is of a paramount importance for this decision, but is not directly related to the decision. What I can anticipate, is that the document defines the environment of the current issues that TDF is facing, and as such inspires some guidance.
Unfortunately, looking at how perceptions - and related discussions - have developed during the last few years - this document has been overlooked by most people, who have read the legal summary - which could be misunderstood - and ignored the full text.
I suppose that most people would have done the same when looking at a 26-page-long sentence in German legalese. Only my Etruscan stubbornness (I was born in the heart of the Etruscan region) has forced me to spend two full days to fully understand, as there were dots which were not connecting in the entire situation.
Please be patient, I am writing the post. I will publish it as soon as I am happy with the contents (me, Italo Vignoli, and no one else). I will take the responsibility for the contents, which in any case will be based on factual evidence and not on speculations.
Hi all,
That should be reconsidered – at least in wording. The board does not determine election results, as per statutes the “Single Transferable Vote System unter Anwendung der Meek-Methode” will do that.
§ 8 (4) of the statutes has been referred too in this discussion quite a few times here, however only partially:
… Er kann monatlich jeweils ein Mitglied aus dem Organ ausschließen, bis der Interessenkonflikt beseitigt oder eine Neuwahl des Organs eingeleitet ist. Aus einem Gremium kann er zur Beseitigung des Interessenkonflikts die notwendige Anzahl von Mitgliedern ausschließen oder durch geeignete Personen ergänzen.
It is quite explicit in how the Board is enabled to resolve conflict of interest once it appears in a body of the foundation and gives explicit limits even on the scale of that. Note that the statutes do not list any other ways for the Board to act here, esp. not prior to joining a body of the foundation.
Leaving aside Cors candidacy here, It seems to me the Board put both Jona and Marco in very inconvenient position with this decision right from the start.
Best,
Bjoern
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Not only them, but also all newly-appointed, and re-newed TDF trustees, from the closing of the last quarter.
As of midnight, I am still working on the document. At the moment, I am too tired to continue writing. I will complete the document tomorrow morning, as soon as I can.
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Why would it? When you were on the BoD, you (personally and collectively) routinely hid legal opinions and other documents from us, and got away with it. Since assuming office, this BoD hides any number of important documents and communications from us, and practically nobody calls them on it.
We (and you) are eating the stew that we (and you) have cooked in previous years.
Have these been appointed/renewed by the outgoing MC or the incoming MC?
Hi,
I usually stay out of this things, but I found something interesting I wanted to share, related to:
So Eliane, in the candidate statement [1] you stated:
This may be outdated, but when I looked into the migration consultants list [2] you are listed to be working for “EDX Informatica” and you are listed on the web page you get following the link provided [3].
So my question is: Do you work for EDX Informatica?
[1] Candidacy to the elections of the TDF Board of Directors
[2] LibreOffice Certified Migration Consultants — The Document Foundation
[3] https://edx.srv.br/
2 Likes
- The documents asked for here, are used for making a decision that violates the rights of Trustees.
- Other documents were in the first place relevant for the Boards work (the most would have been unnoticed if not Paolo would have - selectively of course - leaked); documents that may become of wider interest if they are related to larger changes of the foundations rules/procedures, e.g. directly relevant for Trustees’ position or the activities of the foundation, or if a boards decision is reviewed/challenged by the Trustees.
Hi Italo,
Thanks for your extensive post reg. TDF and the foundations authority.
I’ll share some relevant information for that topic and also it does not answer the questions that your comment above here raised on my side. Could you be so kind to look at these.
With all interesting content (though important information is missing, I will share that later) the post does not explain why it was not possible to follow normal procedures. These TDF procedures allow for (as I point to in my Formal Objection handling a CoI in the MC composition (might it turn out that there is one) as well as managing a CoI around a specific topic.